RoadRacer

Whipple style belt driven supercharger feeding forced induction into the turbo(of choice).Big spool turbo would have instant forced induction as a SC is right now and needs no spool time as it increases boost as soon as rpms come up being driven by the crank speed.

Put any size under or over drive pulley to achieve the boost to spool the turbo as needed for your own psi for the turbo to cram a lot of air into the engine.

Would take some fab work of boost tubes and maybe 2 inter coolers as a lot of hot air would be created.Theres a lot of room on the drivers side to put a lot of junk in there.

I know the air intake to the turbo would be restricted by the amount of boost coming from the SC due to the low rpms of our engines,but you could create a lot of boost with the right pulley size even at 3500 rpms.

I know this system in reverse worked on the V6&V8 silver 92 Detroits back in the late 70s. ??????????????Just thinking out loud.

soulezoo

I believe that system worked pretty well in Allison Acft engines too--- way back in the 40's.

CReed

Outlaw diesel had a truck in diesel power garage section a few months back it was a ford ranger with a 12valve that had a supercharger feeding two TWIN HX35s. Said it will be able to leave the line at 100psi with ease spool up time is rediculously quick.

barryp

Here is a factory VW diesel engine that uses supercharger and turbo

http://car-reviews.automobile.com/ne...sumption/1414/

Patrolman808

Some Detroit diesels have a big single turbo mounted on top of the supercharger.

XLR8R

Blower over turbo is a proven forced-induction scheme... have you any idea of the Whipple's parasitic drag on HP?

DevilzTower

Well if we're specifically speaking of a racing application then yes the whipple may be an good solution to generate a lot of boost at the line. But I wonder how much you'll gain since once you get the big turbo spooled the whipple superchargers usefulness is basically finished, correct? Additionally, it's already been pointed out that whipple style superchargers take a whole lot of hp just to run at higher rpms, however, since the 6TB runs so low, this may not be as big of a concern with the whipple on a diesel, rather than a gasser.

On the other than, if this were a street application, then another solution may provide great benefit. If you were to run a centrifugal supercharger the installation would be a whole lot easier, since you would just basically have to fabricate a new bracket and obtain a new serpentine belt, obviously with additional plumbing required. To get rid of the hp drag issue, if you could obtain a clutch assembly that could de-couple of the supercharger at a predetermined level (whenever the big turbo lights off) then you would need to worry so much about the heavy drag of the s/c. The de-coupling could either come via electric (magnetic) or a mechanical clutch assembly. The VW motor mentioned in this thread uses a magnetic decoupling.

I love this idea tough, getting the benefits of no turbo lag without having to integrate a VG turbo into the 5.9 design sounds like a winner to me.

Raspy

Interesting.

The old Detroit diesels put the turbo feeding the blower to reduce the blowers parasitic load. The VW uses either he blower (at low speed) or the turbo (at high speed). The blower is disconnected be a magnetic clutch. Seems like a lot of hardware to simply reduce turbo lag.

That VW article also mentioned 10 to 1 compression on a turbocharged and blown gas engine! It also has the diesel type common rail fuel system. So I gues they are preventing detonation by using fuel injection. Cool. I wonder if they can turn off the ignition at high speed and high boost and run it like a diesel?

John

DevilzTower

well the VW engine doesn't turn off the ignition like a diesel does once it's up and running, but there is a mercedes concept engine out there that does, it debuted at the Frankfurt auto show in the F700 concept. It's known in mercedes talk as the DiesOtto engine, but normally referred to as HCCI, Homogenous Charge Combustion Ignition. This isn't a new concept, but rather one that's just a pain in the tail to get to work and requires sophisticated engine programming, so it's only been feasilble (read: cost feasilble) to start concept engines like this in the last decade or so.

It's really exciting stuff, but still many years from actual production feasibilty. Just thought I'd pass it along, it's still good stuff to think about.

Sorry to psuedo hi-jack the thread. end hijack/

5.9Excursion

In theory it would work, however you have to prevent the blower from becoming a restriction to the large turbo once it is spooled. So either you go the route of the VW above and route air around it once it isn't needed or you size it appropriately to not become too much of a restriction.

Since it seems like you just trying to think of a way to run a very large single on a truck that can't be run by itself, why not just use twins? Same concept as what you mentioned above. Just use a smaller turbo to get boost going and spool the larger one. Once the large turbo starts to spool you use an external wastegate to let some of the air bypass the smaller turbo and not become too much of a restriction?

RoadRacer

Thanks for your input guys.Sorry to be gone so long,but I've been working on my sons race quad and trying to fix some of the damage on my 700 Grizzly.It got away from me and got a little front bar damage.Also been doing a little research on all the suggestions put up.

Not sure on how much hp it would take to spin up a belt driven SC,but if the boost made would compensate for the loss it my be worth a little more look see.

Talking to a buddy of mine at my local MC/ATV shop and he came up with a blower drive system that maybe may work like the drive system of some ATV pulleys where the actual geometry of the pulley itself would change to over drive the blower.Start off with a 1 to 1 drive and as the rpms increased the belt drive would expand to overdrive the SC without increasing the engine rpms.

It's something to think about and I know that twins are the sure fire way to go,but I'm just looking at something different.Like my ole 97 TJ,instead of putting a SBC V-8 I done a 4.7 Hesco stroker,just to keep it all Jeep,and turbo charged a brand new 98 Neon instead of again going with a Fox body Ford or a tried and true Chev.

So in the mean time I'll be talking to a fabricator friend of mine for all the mounts and boost tubes and my local Kawasucky bud for the maybe kevlar drive system from something else,besides a regular belt drive pulley system.

As long as it's not made out of lead from my local toy store something may show up on the drawing boards.