Synthetic - Turbo
06-13-2008, 05:21 PM
#31
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$ .02 from MY OWN EXPERIENCES
I have seen nothing but trouble out of synthetic oils. F.W.I.W. My experience has primarily been with air cooled engines, in these applications heat dispersement is EXTREMELY important and that is why I made the switch.
I agree that synthetics will absolutely NOT hold their viscosity when hot. Indeed they are the consistancy of water or less.
Interestingly enough water will lubercate the internals of an engine.............the question that remains is for how long?????? Yes the synthetics are more slippery but when they lose viscosity they also lose their lubrication and "coating" properties.
Synthetics cost more to purchase and now we are seeing long term damage in applications that have rarely had problems with conventional oils.
I have seen nothing but trouble out of synthetic oils. F.W.I.W. My experience has primarily been with air cooled engines, in these applications heat dispersement is EXTREMELY important and that is why I made the switch.
I agree that synthetics will absolutely NOT hold their viscosity when hot. Indeed they are the consistancy of water or less.
Interestingly enough water will lubercate the internals of an engine.............the question that remains is for how long?????? Yes the synthetics are more slippery but when they lose viscosity they also lose their lubrication and "coating" properties.
Synthetics cost more to purchase and now we are seeing long term damage in applications that have rarely had problems with conventional oils.
06-13-2008, 06:13 PM
#32
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Direct from Cummins Quickserve: Bulletin 3810340
Synthetic engine oils, API category III, are recommended for use in Cummins engines operating in ambient conditions consistently below -25*C[-13*F] Above this temperature, it is recommended the petroleum-based multi-grade lubricants be used. Synthetic oils do not offer the same level of protection against fuel dilution as do higher multigrade oils. Higher cylinder wear can be experienced when using 0W-30 oils in high-load situations.
The bulletin is a few pages long and really goes into detail on testing they have done comparing synthetics to dino oil. I will stay dino
Synthetic engine oils, API category III, are recommended for use in Cummins engines operating in ambient conditions consistently below -25*C[-13*F] Above this temperature, it is recommended the petroleum-based multi-grade lubricants be used. Synthetic oils do not offer the same level of protection against fuel dilution as do higher multigrade oils. Higher cylinder wear can be experienced when using 0W-30 oils in high-load situations.
The bulletin is a few pages long and really goes into detail on testing they have done comparing synthetics to dino oil. I will stay dino
06-13-2008, 06:15 PM
#33
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READ THIS!!!! Guys, there was just a misunderstanding on my part. I am Brians brother & I am the guy who was talking with HTT. I somehow misunderstood the man. The guy said that warranty could be voided if the failure was on our part, like a kinked oil line, using dirty oil, wrong oil, overheating, overboosting, debris etc. We cleared it up today & synthetic oil is fine to use in a turbocharger. Very bad misunderstanding by me. Sorry.
I also wanted to say that HTT is a great company & I will post the results after we send the turbo back to be checked. I feel like a Donkey!!!!
I also wanted to say that HTT is a great company & I will post the results after we send the turbo back to be checked. I feel like a Donkey!!!!
06-13-2008, 06:18 PM
#34
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I do have a small side note...the volume note is a tough one...
The the same size orifice...say the turbo feed line...more pressure means more volume IF the viscosity of the fluid is the same. So...if you are seeing less pressure at the same rpm with synthetic...the viscosity can NOT be the same.
Clear as mud?
I did not see any advantage to my 25k stint of running synthetic...other than cold pour point. Unless you run alot in VERY cold weather...Delo 400 is as good as it gets...performance wise and dollar wise. On the hot side (ie Flash point) it is almost as high as the best synthetics and higher than the rest and higher than all other 15-40 dino oils. THAT matters to me when pumping through my 1400 degree turbo center section. Well maybe it is not nearly as hot as the exhaust temps...because of the cooling effect of the oil flow that is at engine/water temp (or near) and the heat sink into the compressor side...but it is hot.
5 oil analysis later and a lighter checkbook...I switched back to Delo 400. I change oil 5000-7500 miles max.
The the same size orifice...say the turbo feed line...more pressure means more volume IF the viscosity of the fluid is the same. So...if you are seeing less pressure at the same rpm with synthetic...the viscosity can NOT be the same.
Clear as mud?
I did not see any advantage to my 25k stint of running synthetic...other than cold pour point. Unless you run alot in VERY cold weather...Delo 400 is as good as it gets...performance wise and dollar wise. On the hot side (ie Flash point) it is almost as high as the best synthetics and higher than the rest and higher than all other 15-40 dino oils. THAT matters to me when pumping through my 1400 degree turbo center section. Well maybe it is not nearly as hot as the exhaust temps...because of the cooling effect of the oil flow that is at engine/water temp (or near) and the heat sink into the compressor side...but it is hot.
5 oil analysis later and a lighter checkbook...I switched back to Delo 400. I change oil 5000-7500 miles max.
06-13-2008, 06:28 PM
#35
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Direct from Cummins Quickserve: Bulletin 3810340
Synthetic engine oils, API category III, are recommended for use in Cummins engines operating in ambient conditions consistently below -25*C[-13*F] Above this temperature, it is recommended the petroleum-based multi-grade lubricants be used. Synthetic oils do not offer the same level of protection against fuel dilution as do higher multigrade oils. Higher cylinder wear can be experienced when using 0W-30 oils in high-load situations.
The bulletin is a few pages long and really goes into detail on testing they have done comparing synthetics to dino oil. I will stay dino
Synthetic engine oils, API category III, are recommended for use in Cummins engines operating in ambient conditions consistently below -25*C[-13*F] Above this temperature, it is recommended the petroleum-based multi-grade lubricants be used. Synthetic oils do not offer the same level of protection against fuel dilution as do higher multigrade oils. Higher cylinder wear can be experienced when using 0W-30 oils in high-load situations.
The bulletin is a few pages long and really goes into detail on testing they have done comparing synthetics to dino oil. I will stay dino
What do they know about engines anyway....they have just designing, building, and testing, developing diesels for the last 80 years or so....
I rest my case.
06-13-2008, 06:59 PM
#36
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$ .02 from MY OWN EXPERIENCES
I have seen nothing but trouble out of synthetic oils. F.W.I.W. My experience has primarily been with air cooled engines, in these applications heat dispersement is EXTREMELY important and that is why I made the switch.
I agree that synthetics will absolutely NOT hold their viscosity when hot. Indeed they are the consistancy of water or less.
Interestingly enough water will lubercate the internals of an engine.............the question that remains is for how long?????? Yes the synthetics are more slippery but when they lose viscosity they also lose their lubrication and "coating" properties.
Synthetics cost more to purchase and now we are seeing long term damage in applications that have rarely had problems with conventional oils.
I have seen nothing but trouble out of synthetic oils. F.W.I.W. My experience has primarily been with air cooled engines, in these applications heat dispersement is EXTREMELY important and that is why I made the switch.
I agree that synthetics will absolutely NOT hold their viscosity when hot. Indeed they are the consistancy of water or less.
Interestingly enough water will lubercate the internals of an engine.............the question that remains is for how long?????? Yes the synthetics are more slippery but when they lose viscosity they also lose their lubrication and "coating" properties.
Synthetics cost more to purchase and now we are seeing long term damage in applications that have rarely had problems with conventional oils.
You are very much so correct with air cooled engines in a way. The reason is sythetics don't absorb the heat and pull it away from bearings and such. I have been a VW Beetle head forever. Still have one. Three things cool an air cooled engine, Fuel, Air, and Oil. Get one out of whack and you'll find out the hard way. I use sythetics in my water cooled engines and Rotella T 15W40 in my 1969 VW Beetle....
06-13-2008, 07:32 PM
#37
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I am glad you are getting things worked out with them.
Oh just thought I would post this little clip from the Cummins site under maintenance tips:
Cummins recommends that fuel filters be changed at least every other oil change. Fuel/water separator filters should be checked daily - drain any accumulated water. Do not drain an excessive amount of fuel out or re-priming the fuel system may be required to get engine started.
It is critical to engine life to use high-quality SAE 15W-40 heavy-duty engine oil such as Premium Blue®, which meets API performance classification for CE or CF-4. Midrange engines require SG classification due to sliding cam followers.
Fill the oil filters with clean lubricating oil when changing the engine oil to ensure immediate bearing lubrication when restarting the engine. Failure to pre-lube the oil filter may cause bearing damage.
HMMMMMM???????
Maybe there is a Premium Blue thats not synthetic that I cant find or know any thing about?
When checking bulletins might want to check the engine designs a bit closer...
Oh just thought I would post this little clip from the Cummins site under maintenance tips:
Cummins recommends that fuel filters be changed at least every other oil change. Fuel/water separator filters should be checked daily - drain any accumulated water. Do not drain an excessive amount of fuel out or re-priming the fuel system may be required to get engine started.
It is critical to engine life to use high-quality SAE 15W-40 heavy-duty engine oil such as Premium Blue®, which meets API performance classification for CE or CF-4. Midrange engines require SG classification due to sliding cam followers.
Fill the oil filters with clean lubricating oil when changing the engine oil to ensure immediate bearing lubrication when restarting the engine. Failure to pre-lube the oil filter may cause bearing damage.
HMMMMMM???????
Maybe there is a Premium Blue thats not synthetic that I cant find or know any thing about?
When checking bulletins might want to check the engine designs a bit closer...
06-13-2008, 07:36 PM
#38
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For the record todays dino oils are good stuff and more then suiited for our engines! But people stop chasing your tails trying to degrade synthetics. They both do a great job niether is bad for the cummins they each have there upsides and down sides.
Have a nice day!
Have a nice day!
06-13-2008, 07:36 PM
#39
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Good ol' dino 15W40. Endorsed by Cummins, I double checked.
06-13-2008, 08:10 PM
#41
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The turbo actually had 30,000 on it. But just 7,500 with the synthetic. prior to that I used premium blue because of the cummins endorsement. Then the last time I seen the 5w40 synthetic ultra blue with the cummins endorsement at $30 a gallon so I tried it. I don't know much about oil but the endorsement is right on front. But then again cummins don't come equipped with a Htt. Anyways I will keep you posted on the customer service. I am changing to a 62/13ss/71 and hope it lasts a little longer.
06-13-2008, 08:20 PM
#42
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On another note:
I think synthetic is fine for a stock truck. A stock turbo will usually have a turbo that has a regulated shaft speed (fuel/wastegate, stock programming etc.)
Once you step up to the big boost of high performance turbo's you are spinning them faster etc. and you should provide the turbo with all the protection you can get. IMO
If oil thickness has no bearing on anything then I guess it's ok to run 5w40 in my 11.5" AAM rear end.
I think synthetic is fine for a stock truck. A stock turbo will usually have a turbo that has a regulated shaft speed (fuel/wastegate, stock programming etc.)
Once you step up to the big boost of high performance turbo's you are spinning them faster etc. and you should provide the turbo with all the protection you can get. IMO
If oil thickness has no bearing on anything then I guess it's ok to run 5w40 in my 11.5" AAM rear end.
if thickness is so important, why don't you just run high temp bearing grease in your engine, tranny, diffs, etc.
06-13-2008, 08:34 PM
#43
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I know, I feel like a total **** over this. You boys just argue on & forget that I even spoke. This flob turned out to be a informative post, I'm just gonna read, maybe I read better then I listen to phone conversations.
07-22-2008, 05:57 AM
#44
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Htt said the turbo was cooked. He claimed he has never seen one get so hot and out of shape. Bearings were blued. Cost me 5$500 for repairs because had to buy new exhaust housing so I went with a 14 for my other truck. I don't know how it was getting so hot. I had my outlook defueling at 14-1500 which some had told me would be safe but I don't know how accurate it really is.Thanks for everyones help.
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