rubbert

I have been following the box debate with great interest and believe the knowledge base of this forum will prove invaluable when decisions are made!

I have just about decided on the CR as a base to work around on my new truck. From what I have been reading the last few days, if used within the mechanical parameters created for it, the CR provides the most potential power grains.

Taking a CR and stacking it with a pressure box of preference (recommendations please)... how is that done? Just plug both of 'em in? I have not looked at the CR's potential companion's install guidelines to see if they plug into the same places.

Will this compound any engine code problems? If the additional box has adjustments will the settings sync?

Will the two work together at the lower/safer settings of the CR? Will sending units for the instrumentation (de-fueling - gauges) of one work with the other?

What are my options for the soon to be anemic fuel system besides FASS and/or larger tubing? Any other pump setups?

I expect to have to replace the clutch before too long with this type of power availability. I hope to be able to have satisfactory gains without injectors or turbo mods. I also hope this is realistic!

Any idea of the top speed of such a beast?

Thanks!

banshee

rubbert,

Stacking the TST box with any of the pressure box is looking to be a very good option. Several TDR members have stacked their trucks with EZs, and they are all reporting great power with no side effects. The newest TST boxes have the code issues fixed, so that is no longer a problem. With the proper support systems (namely the lift pump, turbo(s), and clutch/auto tranny) guys are seeing over 500 hp with a stacked setup! Lower settings aren't a problem except for the fact that you're going to get more smoke. Injectors aren't looking to be a good option because IMO the rail is running out of fuel and causing misfiring & hesitation at higher settings. Another solution to the expensive fass is to tie in a pusher pump into the stock lift pump. I added a Holley Blue pump and replaced my lines with -6 SS braided Aeroquip lines and eliminated the banjo bolts in favor of weber carb adapters. So far my pressure holds plenty good at WOT with just the EZ. The top speed is going to be RPM limited somewhere in the 115-120mph range depending on gearing, tire size, and getting around the factory governer.

John

rubbert

Do the boxes remove the governer? The chips I had in Fords took the rev limiter off.

Thanks,
Scott

doug

I think the rpm govener is still in tact.

It turns out that the earlier agressive pressure boxes (notably the EZ) has a fueling curve that (as single pressure boxes go) is quite complementary to the TST. basically the low-end agressive pressure boxes (such as the ramifier) are not suitable without re-programming. But the EZ, and its tendancy to bring in the power later than some of the other pressure boxes, is good.

Some of the guys who have actually tried this should comment. Without knowledge to the contrary, I would suggest stacking the EZ on top of the TST (at the MAP connection). this makes the TST see the real boost (not EZ fooled boost). Since the TST feeds through actual boost but imposes a maximum cap, you can stack the EZ MAP connector on top of the TST connector. this makes the EZ do two things (1) it operates on TST's boost signal which we know is the same as factory except for the maximum limit, and (2) it allows the EZ to talk to the ECM with whatever boost fooling it wants to do. This way, you guarentee that the TST fuels the way it wants, and the EZ boost-fools the way IT wants. that should work good.

now then, if the EZ boost-fools the same way that TST does, then it makes no difference which way you hook it up.

Boy you think you have a fuel system capacity issue with just the TST, wait till you put on the EZ.

What will happen with the EGT-based defueling is that the TST will back off of the duration, but the EZ will keep on trucking. Experimentation will be in order here, but I suspect the TST's de-fueling will still do a good job. watch out for WOT runs at high rpms -- to see if the TST will de-fuel enough to keep the EZ under control. it might not.

As for stacking duration and pressure boxes together, note that only TST and VA make duration boxes, and only TST and banks do the EGT de-fueling. If you're gonna stack duration and pressure, in my opinion its the duration box that should do the EGT-based de-fueling, not the pressure box. for example, I've never tried this, but I would suspect that stacking the Banks six gun (pressure/timing box with EGT defueling) with the VA duration box is a really bad idea.

the only un-realistic statement in your openning post is your desire to use the stock turbo. uh, the stock turbo goes poof with just the TST. You're talking twins or a really big single in order to make all of that (TST+EZ) power usable.

But TST and EZ should work well.

100 Proof

Doug-

2:25 AM?? You are either up really late or are in a severly different time zone on a business trip.

Sayonara?

100 Proof

banshee

Doug,

In reference to the stacking on the MAP, I agree that the TST should be plugged into the block to read the real boost, then the edge should tap into the tst, then the stock pigtail to the edge. The 2nd gen trucks when stacked had to be done that way or they wouldn't make any power up on top. If the EZ was plugged in first the TST would never see more than a ~24 psi signal (max stock boost... the fooled "to ecm" signal) and thus wouldn't be giving its full fuel. I'm not sure about the defueling part, though

John

banshee

Dennis,

Plugging the boxes up like that sounds like you're not going to get the full fueling from the TST box. It will never see a boost level above the max stock level that your box or any other box will fool to. If you really have 40 psi in the manifold, the first box will see the 40, but it will fool it down enough as to not throw a overboost code (~25 psi?). The second box in line would never see any more than that and thus wouldn't fuel to it's peak potential (35 psi for the TST). Or, is the TST fueling its butt off trying to get to 35psi, and it never gets there because of the fooled signal? The latter sounds more correct because of all the smoke you're getting. The stacked timing boxes on the 2nd gen trucks were mainly used for their timing and low boost fueling, so they had to be 2nd in line, but perhaps these are different....

John

RadRam

If you hooked up the fueling box first on the map senser, the tst boost gauge would not work properly either- max out at 25 psi.
+/- That might throw the tst off -I think.

RadRam

Stacked my 0 -100 hp Quadzilla with my TST module after reading the above posts. tst first then Quadzilla. Truck runs real SMOOTH,
tried 50 hp setting first then the 100 hp - tst 3x3 then 5x3, clutch really slipped - huge power gain.

Egts I believe the same or less- Quadzilla has smooth power so it seems to help- believe it or not ! When I get the new clutch in I will dyno it.

JKE

you men are getting out of hand! I love it!

lighter, stronger, faster - JKE

doug

If you want to hook up the Ramifier to the block, then you should eliminate its boost limit, and let TST do boost limiting. This will also alow the TST boost gauge to operate properly.

The other question is how TST reacts to boost, does it make fueling decisons based on measured boost, and on the basis of which boost signal (stock or Ramified) should the TST fuel.

banshee

Dennis, Doug,

Ah haaa!! Removing the ramifier boost fooling makes sense!! Thanks for the replies.

John