Smarty vs. Bully Dog on my truck....
10-29-2006, 05:29 AM
#16
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Getting the right combo
Luken, the right mix is everything. I would say you have two things you need to change possibly. 1st,.. is your MP8 the NO timing version that is meant to run with the TST? If yes then that is probably ok,... but I'd still try to run your SMARTY/TST stack w/out it and see what that gives you. I assume you have the R-49 TST?? Stop and don't pass go until you send it in to Danny at TST and get the new multi program (standard, '05 twins, '03 twins) and the user adj timing feature. I believe it costs just $50 and you get the turbo shut-down timer (nice feature).
I was the KING of the pop and injector timing rattle for almost 9 months!!!!! It was a major struggle to work through this and the above info was the solution.
I can run the triple stack of TSt/SMARTY(or PPE HOT)/EZ with NO problem and I can run them at max. I must have something right since now I can run the TST on 9/5 and the SMARTY on SW9 or the PPE/HOT on extreme, and the EZ on lvl 3 (top level). I've found a lot of units say they have no timing and they still do have a bit, which can cause a problem. The EZ, per Aaron at EDGE has zero timing and just pressure and my testing confirms that,.. just not sure about your MP8 however. That TST with the new versions mentioned above will let you take your truck out and completely zero it in in about 20 to 30 mins.
You didn't say anything about the dreaded pop so even with your stock CP3 you must be getting enough fuel so your problem has got to be total timing. My testing has told me that 15* is the magic number,... and that is total combined timing. Sometimes less is better.
Hope this helps you. Let us know. Pat
I was the KING of the pop and injector timing rattle for almost 9 months!!!!! It was a major struggle to work through this and the above info was the solution.
I can run the triple stack of TSt/SMARTY(or PPE HOT)/EZ with NO problem and I can run them at max. I must have something right since now I can run the TST on 9/5 and the SMARTY on SW9 or the PPE/HOT on extreme, and the EZ on lvl 3 (top level). I've found a lot of units say they have no timing and they still do have a bit, which can cause a problem. The EZ, per Aaron at EDGE has zero timing and just pressure and my testing confirms that,.. just not sure about your MP8 however. That TST with the new versions mentioned above will let you take your truck out and completely zero it in in about 20 to 30 mins.
You didn't say anything about the dreaded pop so even with your stock CP3 you must be getting enough fuel so your problem has got to be total timing. My testing has told me that 15* is the magic number,... and that is total combined timing. Sometimes less is better.
Hope this helps you. Let us know. Pat
10-29-2006, 07:34 AM
#17
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I don't run alot of power though my truck like alot of you guys do, But I'm always changing programing around. The very first release of the Smarty worked great with the TST, but was VERY smokey. I liked to run Smarty on 2 and increase power on the fly with the TST. Even on level 2 it got the truck moving and making boost quickly so that the TST could produce it's upper rpm power. Then I tried the first release for improved throttle contol for the Smarty, software 202. Smoke and thottle reponse was improved, but I could no longer use the TST even with the Smarty on even numbered software. It would make lots of timing rattle. Then I tried Smarty's "TST" software based on the 202 software. They would now work together but I found the decreased throttle response became a little boring.
The other day I downloaded the latest 303 program=least amount of TQ management. By itself it is definetly more refined than the first version, I like it. But it still will not work with the TST. I set the Smarty to level 2, TST 4x1, and I get some nasty rattle at 12-15psi @ 2000-2200rpm but it seems to go away at higher boost levels in the same rpm range.
I think if I had the $$$$$$$$ right now I would like to try TST's latest version of the PowerMax with rail pressure by itself.
The other day I downloaded the latest 303 program=least amount of TQ management. By itself it is definetly more refined than the first version, I like it. But it still will not work with the TST. I set the Smarty to level 2, TST 4x1, and I get some nasty rattle at 12-15psi @ 2000-2200rpm but it seems to go away at higher boost levels in the same rpm range. I think if I had the $$$$$$$$ right now I would like to try TST's latest version of the PowerMax with rail pressure by itself.
10-29-2006, 08:48 AM
#18
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I know what you mean about stacked settings. I would love to have the money to finish the mods the right way, but until then I will have to live with the fenicky settings, rattles and smoke. Still fun, but could be lot more
if the money tree would bloom .
10-29-2006, 08:58 AM
#19
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Luden,
If your have TST with adj. timing.
Ive found Smarty on Level 1 & TST on no timing works best.
TST provides the duration to suite.
Smarty provides great throttle response on level 1 & provides a timing program for power & efficiency.
The Cummins timing program advances & retards timing to meet emissions.
If your have TST with adj. timing.
Ive found Smarty on Level 1 & TST on no timing works best.
TST provides the duration to suite.
Smarty provides great throttle response on level 1 & provides a timing program for power & efficiency.
The Cummins timing program advances & retards timing to meet emissions.
10-29-2006, 09:17 AM
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Thanks for all the feedback guys!!!
I have another question...
Supposedly my bully dog program (Scarry Larry has the timing completely maxed out)
And the Smarty on 8 supposedly does no timing.
How much timing does the Smarty do on even numbers??
I don't have the adjustable timing on my tst because I had no timing rattle at all. I just dont understand why I would need it to run it with the Smarty which they say does NO timing on the even numbers.....
I'll get the adjustable timing on the tst and my stage 2 pump on and if that doesn't work then I'll just run the bully dog. I get the pop from draining the rail but at least I don't get timing rattle...
Thanks again guys!!
Lucas
I have another question...
Supposedly my bully dog program (Scarry Larry has the timing completely maxed out)
And the Smarty on 8 supposedly does no timing.
How much timing does the Smarty do on even numbers??
I don't have the adjustable timing on my tst because I had no timing rattle at all. I just dont understand why I would need it to run it with the Smarty which they say does NO timing on the even numbers.....
I'll get the adjustable timing on the tst and my stage 2 pump on and if that doesn't work then I'll just run the bully dog. I get the pop from draining the rail but at least I don't get timing rattle...
Thanks again guys!!
Lucas
10-29-2006, 10:08 AM
#21
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Smarty does not add any timing on even numbers, however on my truck it seem to screw with the TST timing hence the ugly rattle.
Smarty, on stock programing , the TST timing is fine.
If I try to use Smarty on even numbers with the TST timing I hear major timing fluctuations
Smarty, on stock programing , the TST timing is fine.
If I try to use Smarty on even numbers with the TST timing I hear major timing fluctuations
10-29-2006, 12:03 PM
#22
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I honestly think the Smarty does timing on even numbers. If not then why would you get timing rattle with it stacked with the tst?
By itself if may not add any timing, but the whole point of the "no timing" setting is so you can benefit when stacking it with the tst.
I just wish I could get an answer to why on even settings it still gets timing rattle with the tst....
Also, for a completely stock truck I think the Smarty is alot better than any other downloader...
By itself if may not add any timing, but the whole point of the "no timing" setting is so you can benefit when stacking it with the tst.
I just wish I could get an answer to why on even settings it still gets timing rattle with the tst....
Also, for a completely stock truck I think the Smarty is alot better than any other downloader...
10-29-2006, 01:42 PM
#24
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No. Of course I get codes every once in a while. Pretty common...
With the Smarty/tst it's code mania!
I just got back from my lunch break and I unhooked the mp-8 and it doesn't make a difference....
Still too much timing on Smarty 8, tst on anything above 1x1....
With the Smarty/tst it's code mania!
I just got back from my lunch break and I unhooked the mp-8 and it doesn't make a difference....
Still too much timing on Smarty 8, tst on anything above 1x1....
10-29-2006, 02:27 PM
#25
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Luken, have you tried any of the new downloads? I know Marco says to keep it current.
10-29-2006, 02:43 PM
#26
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I'd just like to get some answers from the source before I spend $650 on one for my truck without knowing if it ever will work with the tst turned up over 1x1...
The truck has great low end but it is lacking ALOT of top end power because you can't turn the tst up....
10-29-2006, 03:30 PM
#27
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Luken
Get the TST upgraded so you have timing adjustment. I think that there is some timing advance with the Smarty on the even numbers. Probably due to extended duration. The effect is probably some timing. But with the TST timing adjustment I was able to find stack combos that do not rattle bad. I can set Smarty to timing number load and then set TST to 0* or 3* timing and no real bad rattle. Or set Smarty to no timing number load and set TST to 12* or 15* timing and no real bad rattle either. Having the option of any of the TST programs also helps find truck friendly stack.
Get the TST upgraded so you have timing adjustment. I think that there is some timing advance with the Smarty on the even numbers. Probably due to extended duration. The effect is probably some timing. But with the TST timing adjustment I was able to find stack combos that do not rattle bad. I can set Smarty to timing number load and then set TST to 0* or 3* timing and no real bad rattle. Or set Smarty to no timing number load and set TST to 12* or 15* timing and no real bad rattle either. Having the option of any of the TST programs also helps find truck friendly stack.
10-29-2006, 03:38 PM
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Luken
Get the TST upgraded so you have timing adjustment. I think that there is some timing advance with the Smarty on the even numbers. Probably due to extended duration. The effect is probably some timing. But with the TST timing adjustment I was able to find stack combos that do not rattle bad. I can set Smarty to timing number load and then set TST to 0* or 3* timing and no real bad rattle. Or set Smarty to no timing number load and set TST to 12* or 15* timing and no real bad rattle either. Having the option of any of the TST programs also helps find truck friendly stack.
Get the TST upgraded so you have timing adjustment. I think that there is some timing advance with the Smarty on the even numbers. Probably due to extended duration. The effect is probably some timing. But with the TST timing adjustment I was able to find stack combos that do not rattle bad. I can set Smarty to timing number load and then set TST to 0* or 3* timing and no real bad rattle. Or set Smarty to no timing number load and set TST to 12* or 15* timing and no real bad rattle either. Having the option of any of the TST programs also helps find truck friendly stack.
Thanks
10-29-2006, 08:42 PM
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you think running a new cam and the Crazy larry will put more horsepower at lower rpms? ...to make the bottom end equivilent to the smarty, cuz thats where the smarty seems to really shine is more hp at lower rpms.
10-29-2006, 10:14 PM
#30
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With Smarty on 4(90hp no timing) I can set the TST with 05Twins program to 15* timing and up to 4/2 and EZ on 2. With Smarty on 7(130 with timing) I can set the TST with 05Twins to 3* timing and 4/1 and EZ on 2. There are many combos to try, by like ot-of-here said it seems like a total of 15-18* total timing will work with most combos. With the TST standard program I can go one or two numbers higher and it is a little calmer for daily driving. These combos are for street driving, on the track I set things a little higher, I can stand a little rattle for a few seconds. I have many combos to try still, but with the latest TST options and different Smarty program upgrades I am sure there is more than one that will work well.