Propane or Meth/Water
#1
Propane or Meth/Water
I am looking to get a little more out of my 05 Cummins with a 6 speed. I have an Edge Hot box, intake, and exhaust. I am looking at adding a little more to it. What seems to work better and less harsh on the truck? I have under 2000 miles on the truck and plan on keeping it awhile. Which would be the best bang for the buck so to speak? Any info would be great.
#4
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Slov, If you have some headroom before maximum EGT while WOT or towing then Propane is a great addition. I don't know where underpsi's concerns are coming from. The MSD digital propane injection is superb from those that I've talked to that have it. If you use it all the time a forklift size tank should last about 2 tanks of diesel if I remember. With propane you get a little more efficiency out of the diesel you use plus the power from the propane. If the propane is the cost of diesel then you will end up with better cheaper mileage. If you are close to your EGT limit the Snow's digital stage 3 boost cooler is the way to go. You get more power from having more O2 going into the engine per volume the turbo pumps plus you get some fueling from the methanol. IF the methanol is about the same as diesel you are ahead the same as propane. Both can be used at the same time but I would suggest getting a ATS intake horn that is tapped for adding both "drugs". If you add too much methanol to the water or your mix is too methanol rich your EGT's will be worse. With Water Meth you have to wait until the engine is warmed and you have to turn it off at least 5 minutes before you stop to allow the water vapor to fully evaporate from the engine. ks
MSD Digital Propane Injection KitsHigh-tech horsepower.
When propane is injected into a turbo charged diesel engine, there is a tremendous increase in power and torque! Power isn't the only benefit, as you'll also gain travel range in your rig with the addition of clean-burning propane. MSD says their digital propane injection (DPI) systems are the safest propane systems available because they use a closed loop ECM. It constantly monitors the engine parameters, such as propane vapor temperature, over-boost, and of course rpm, before any propane is allowed to be added to the engine. Or, if you simply do not want to use the system at certain points, it can be disabled with the flip of a switch. These systems can also data-log a number of engine parameters, and are programmed for each application, so there are no jets to drill or external adjustments required. When you're towing a heavy load, these DPI systems will give you the extra oomph to get up and over the toughest grades. Not only will the power be increased, but you'll also be able to run further between fuel stops!
When propane is injected into a turbo charged diesel engine, there is a tremendous increase in power and torque! Power isn't the only benefit, as you'll also gain travel range in your rig with the addition of clean-burning propane. MSD says their digital propane injection (DPI) systems are the safest propane systems available because they use a closed loop ECM. It constantly monitors the engine parameters, such as propane vapor temperature, over-boost, and of course rpm, before any propane is allowed to be added to the engine. Or, if you simply do not want to use the system at certain points, it can be disabled with the flip of a switch. These systems can also data-log a number of engine parameters, and are programmed for each application, so there are no jets to drill or external adjustments required. When you're towing a heavy load, these DPI systems will give you the extra oomph to get up and over the toughest grades. Not only will the power be increased, but you'll also be able to run further between fuel stops!
Snow Performance New Boost Cooler®
In diesels, the effect is three fold: 1. The intercooling effect provides for more available air and all the benefits of a higher positive pressure ratio (more power giving fuel can be utilized safely without high combustion temperatures). 2. The combustion of water provides for more power on the power stroke. 3. Methanol acts as an additional fuel for more power.
07/12/05 New Stage-3 Water/methanol Injection System for Diesel Towing/RV
New Boost Cooler® Diesel kit gives 100+ lb/ft Torque increase, 250°f decrease in Exhaust Gas Temps, and better fuel economy!
Snow Performance has developed a new Stage-3 Diesel Boost Cooler® water/methanol injection system for towing/RV diesels. 100+lb/ft torque increases and better fuel economy have been consistently demonstrated. Just as important, over 200°f reductions in exhaust gas temps are common so full power can be utilized for long periods of time such as towing a load up a long grade. Designed for towing, and power, unlike other power adders, it really gives the best of both worlds – big power and cooler combustion. In the words of one satisfied customer, “ now I can tow my trailer 20 miles/hr faster up the steepest grades with cooler EGT’s”. Better yet, this is all accomplished with a fluid that costs less than $1 a gallon!
The Stage-3 Diesel kit features a new Digital Variable Controller with a 2d map programmed into it’s microprocessor that takes both boost and exhaust gas temps into account in regulating injection. The net effect is smooth power in all engine load states with no combustion quench resulting in a true turn-on-and-forget system.
The controller is dash mounted and includes read-outs for boost, exhaust gas temp, and pump output for full visibility. This feature precludes the need for boost and EGT gauges. This provides for a $200-$300 savings if these were to be purchased separately.
Designed as a chemical intercooler for turbo-diesel applications for increased air density and power, the Boost Cooler® also conditions combustion so more fuel and boost can be utilized safely. Methanol acts as an additional fuel source and water cools combustion as evidenced by cooler exhaust gas temperatures. The key is atomization and by injecting at over 200psi through a nozzle that spins the fluid supersonically before forcing it through a venturi-shaped orifice, cooling and power are unparalleled. In the words of Steve Estrada at SuperFlow Dyno Corp.: “the Boost Cooler® by Snow Performance showed more horsepower per dollar than anything we’ve ever tested”.
The Boost Cooler® has received much press recently in diesels as two world records were recently set. In Sept. ’04, Greg Hogue set the diesel truck world record in the quarter mile at 8.54 seconds using the boost Cooler®. In Nov. ’04, Scott Bentz and his Boost Cooler® equipped Rocky Mountain Cummins Diesel Dragster set the overall quarter mile diesel world record with a time of 7.98 seconds!! Although applicable to any diesel, the Dodge 5.9 Cummins, Ford Powerstroke®, and the GM Duramax® have become popular applications.
Priced at just $ the Stage-3 Diesel kit includes a 220psi high volume pump, new 2d mapped Digital Variable Controller that puts just the right injection quantity in under all conditions, specially designed 2-stage nozzles, and all the necessary parts to install on a diesel for an easy installation. The kit can be used on 100-1000hp/ 5-150psig boost applications. Installation takes just 3-4 hours.
In diesels, the effect is three fold: 1. The intercooling effect provides for more available air and all the benefits of a higher positive pressure ratio (more power giving fuel can be utilized safely without high combustion temperatures). 2. The combustion of water provides for more power on the power stroke. 3. Methanol acts as an additional fuel for more power.
07/12/05 New Stage-3 Water/methanol Injection System for Diesel Towing/RV
New Boost Cooler® Diesel kit gives 100+ lb/ft Torque increase, 250°f decrease in Exhaust Gas Temps, and better fuel economy!
Snow Performance has developed a new Stage-3 Diesel Boost Cooler® water/methanol injection system for towing/RV diesels. 100+lb/ft torque increases and better fuel economy have been consistently demonstrated. Just as important, over 200°f reductions in exhaust gas temps are common so full power can be utilized for long periods of time such as towing a load up a long grade. Designed for towing, and power, unlike other power adders, it really gives the best of both worlds – big power and cooler combustion. In the words of one satisfied customer, “ now I can tow my trailer 20 miles/hr faster up the steepest grades with cooler EGT’s”. Better yet, this is all accomplished with a fluid that costs less than $1 a gallon!
The Stage-3 Diesel kit features a new Digital Variable Controller with a 2d map programmed into it’s microprocessor that takes both boost and exhaust gas temps into account in regulating injection. The net effect is smooth power in all engine load states with no combustion quench resulting in a true turn-on-and-forget system.
The controller is dash mounted and includes read-outs for boost, exhaust gas temp, and pump output for full visibility. This feature precludes the need for boost and EGT gauges. This provides for a $200-$300 savings if these were to be purchased separately.
Designed as a chemical intercooler for turbo-diesel applications for increased air density and power, the Boost Cooler® also conditions combustion so more fuel and boost can be utilized safely. Methanol acts as an additional fuel source and water cools combustion as evidenced by cooler exhaust gas temperatures. The key is atomization and by injecting at over 200psi through a nozzle that spins the fluid supersonically before forcing it through a venturi-shaped orifice, cooling and power are unparalleled. In the words of Steve Estrada at SuperFlow Dyno Corp.: “the Boost Cooler® by Snow Performance showed more horsepower per dollar than anything we’ve ever tested”.
The Boost Cooler® has received much press recently in diesels as two world records were recently set. In Sept. ’04, Greg Hogue set the diesel truck world record in the quarter mile at 8.54 seconds using the boost Cooler®. In Nov. ’04, Scott Bentz and his Boost Cooler® equipped Rocky Mountain Cummins Diesel Dragster set the overall quarter mile diesel world record with a time of 7.98 seconds!! Although applicable to any diesel, the Dodge 5.9 Cummins, Ford Powerstroke®, and the GM Duramax® have become popular applications.
Priced at just $ the Stage-3 Diesel kit includes a 220psi high volume pump, new 2d mapped Digital Variable Controller that puts just the right injection quantity in under all conditions, specially designed 2-stage nozzles, and all the necessary parts to install on a diesel for an easy installation. The kit can be used on 100-1000hp/ 5-150psig boost applications. Installation takes just 3-4 hours.
#5
Adminstrator-ess
I'm in favor of water/meth. As long as you keep the amount of methanol below 50% and you don't inject it at too low a boost pressure it is very safe. You can see the HP gains in my sig. The 1600 degree pyro was pegged on the #2 only run, on water/meth it only hit 1400.
Propane will only save you money on fuel if you can get it cheaper than diesel. On a propane setup you will burn in propane what you save in diesel. A 20# BBQ tank is about 5 gallons, you can do the math based on the local price.
BTW, I can get propane free at work (not 5 finger discount, the management figures if they give it away we can't steal it) but I do not use it on my truck. The big spike in cylinder pressure when it autoignites spooks me. Water/meth is a lot mellower.
Propane will only save you money on fuel if you can get it cheaper than diesel. On a propane setup you will burn in propane what you save in diesel. A 20# BBQ tank is about 5 gallons, you can do the math based on the local price.
BTW, I can get propane free at work (not 5 finger discount, the management figures if they give it away we can't steal it) but I do not use it on my truck. The big spike in cylinder pressure when it autoignites spooks me. Water/meth is a lot mellower.
#6
i liked the water/methanal a lot off the start, but think the duramax does not offer a lot of room between the top of the piston and head(squash), and seams to bend rods over time, water does not compress if vaporisation is not good enought
i found a reduction of egts by 200 degrees and gave a good 60hp with a 50/50 mix...
but found that lp and nitrous gave better results with a safer outcome
i found a reduction of egts by 200 degrees and gave a good 60hp with a 50/50 mix...
but found that lp and nitrous gave better results with a safer outcome
#7
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FredW is right on water, The Gains on a Cummins are double those of the udders. That is why I'd only go with the digital injection that is controlled off the engine ECM parameters. Nitrous is a little expensive and hard to get unless your purpose is racing. Propane and water/methanol (washer fluid) are available at most service stations. ks
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#9
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I currently run both Propane and Water/Meth stage 2 kit on my vehicle. I just returned from a 1800 miles trip and can say that I saw roughly 2-3mpg increase with the propane. While running propane you must be careful with the amount of Methanol you use as well. I believe it is 70/30 mix 30% meth when running it with propane. I only run the meth when i see my EGT's start to climb. I am happy with both and together when used right they make awesome safe power...
#10
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I've been running a Bully Dog high output propane system for 6 years; Ain't had one problem. The system was only 620 dollars and I get about 3-4 mpg increase while towing, and about 100 degree decrease in egt. My boost switch is set at 10 psi so it doesn't porpise while on cruise control. I use 10 gallons of lp every 1000-1200 miles towing (a lot less empty) Truck has right at 500,000miles on it right now and my 05 will get the propane soon.
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#12
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Those are some impressive numbers does anybody have a longevity report with the water/meth? I now that Matt had seen good results with the propane but I hav'nt seen any on the h2o & crystal. I'm pretty much sold on that set-up if I can get some long-term reports. By the way anybody on this site ever tried nitrous with either combination or does that do the same thing as one of them?
#15
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Originally Posted by tristan21
Those are some impressive numbers does anybody have a longevity report with the water/meth? I now that Matt had seen good results with the propane but I hav'nt seen any on the h2o & crystal. I'm pretty much sold on that set-up if I can get some long-term reports. By the way anybody on this site ever tried nitrous with either combination or does that do the same thing as one of them?
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