Piston temps?
02-07-2008, 10:34 AM
#47
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Thanks ah64id for the heads up about this thread.
I've read more or less the whole thread. I'm not so sure what's the real question here. The piston temps or if I know what I do? C'mon...
Simple things first. Let's see the piston temps.
I guess it's best to answer with a question. Considered that there are several thousand Smarty's out there, about how many burned pistons due to Smarty's timing have you heard? I'm aware of none.
Now let's see if I know my stuff.
I'm the only "aftermarket exhaust emissions software engineer" that I'm aware of. What does that mean? I'm the guy how tweaked the software(s) for the official European exhaust emissions tests / certification for the following engines. 5.9L VP44 Cummins, Duramax, 5.9L CR Cummins and lately the 350 Hp 6.7L Cummins.
In poor words. These engines as they come in OEM style do not meet the European emissions standards. In the past the EU emissions were tighter than the USA ones, today the tests are too different one from the other.
I've had to lower the exhaust emissions keeping the Hp rating as close to stock as possible. Never lost more than 5 hp...
Why did we do these emissions tests?
Simple, none of the above are exported by the OEM's. If the "gray market" wants to sell them here in Europe the engines need the emissions certifcation done. Otherwise no sales of the American trucks here in Europe....
OK, exhaust emissions tests are done in controlled envoirenment, CVS, high end exhaust emissions gas analyzers. Does the name Horriba tell you something? Doesn't matter... Let me just say that the tollerances for the emissions test is the PPM.
Well, for obvious reasons, first thing to do is to tweak the timing for better emsissions. With the test equipment used it is possible to see in real time while the engine is running what comes out of the tailpipe. Tweak the timing and see what happens to NOx, HC, CO....EGT's before and after turbo , ECT's, oil temp blah blah blah...
You won't believe how many things can be read out of what's called "emissions picture" of an engine!
One really nice feature with those toys is that you're able to know the fuel consumption in REAL time ( based on the carbon balance ). Thus it is possible to exactly define the efficency of the engine for a certain timing setup.
Next step with the timing is the dyno. Tweak the timing and see what happens with the Hp.... Combine the findings of best Hp with the findings you got from the emissions testing, voilà! Really?
NOT!
BACK OUT of the best possible HP / Mpg timing! One never knows! Safety of the engine or should I say HG? or pistons? FIRST.
Some time back there were a lot of guys complaining about the "horrible timing rattle" they got with Smarty. Remember? I changed the timing ( later timing ) in this latest SW release ( 4.11 ) due to these complains. Well, that timing with the rattle was already way on the safe side of things. Today, we have a little higher EGT's a little less fuel efficency combined with almost non existand complains about the timing rattle. Works for me.
Makes sense?
Marco
I've read more or less the whole thread. I'm not so sure what's the real question here. The piston temps or if I know what I do? C'mon...
Simple things first. Let's see the piston temps.
I guess it's best to answer with a question. Considered that there are several thousand Smarty's out there, about how many burned pistons due to Smarty's timing have you heard? I'm aware of none.
Now let's see if I know my stuff.
I'm the only "aftermarket exhaust emissions software engineer" that I'm aware of. What does that mean? I'm the guy how tweaked the software(s) for the official European exhaust emissions tests / certification for the following engines. 5.9L VP44 Cummins, Duramax, 5.9L CR Cummins and lately the 350 Hp 6.7L Cummins.
In poor words. These engines as they come in OEM style do not meet the European emissions standards. In the past the EU emissions were tighter than the USA ones, today the tests are too different one from the other.
I've had to lower the exhaust emissions keeping the Hp rating as close to stock as possible. Never lost more than 5 hp...
Why did we do these emissions tests?
Simple, none of the above are exported by the OEM's. If the "gray market" wants to sell them here in Europe the engines need the emissions certifcation done. Otherwise no sales of the American trucks here in Europe....
OK, exhaust emissions tests are done in controlled envoirenment, CVS, high end exhaust emissions gas analyzers. Does the name Horriba tell you something? Doesn't matter... Let me just say that the tollerances for the emissions test is the PPM.
Well, for obvious reasons, first thing to do is to tweak the timing for better emsissions. With the test equipment used it is possible to see in real time while the engine is running what comes out of the tailpipe. Tweak the timing and see what happens to NOx, HC, CO....EGT's before and after turbo , ECT's, oil temp blah blah blah...
You won't believe how many things can be read out of what's called "emissions picture" of an engine!
One really nice feature with those toys is that you're able to know the fuel consumption in REAL time ( based on the carbon balance ). Thus it is possible to exactly define the efficency of the engine for a certain timing setup.
Next step with the timing is the dyno. Tweak the timing and see what happens with the Hp.... Combine the findings of best Hp with the findings you got from the emissions testing, voilà! Really?
NOT!
BACK OUT of the best possible HP / Mpg timing! One never knows! Safety of the engine or should I say HG? or pistons? FIRST.
Some time back there were a lot of guys complaining about the "horrible timing rattle" they got with Smarty. Remember? I changed the timing ( later timing ) in this latest SW release ( 4.11 ) due to these complains. Well, that timing with the rattle was already way on the safe side of things. Today, we have a little higher EGT's a little less fuel efficency combined with almost non existand complains about the timing rattle. Works for me.
Makes sense?
Marco
02-07-2008, 10:47 AM
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I forgot to mention the probably most important part of the timing R&D.
Beta testing on a vide variety of trucks. From stock to wild.
Due to engine production tollerances...
Beta testing on a vide variety of trucks. From stock to wild.
Due to engine production tollerances...
02-07-2008, 11:30 AM
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Marco, its much appreciated you take the time to address the questions/concerns of this board. Thank you.
BTW......since we have your attention, is there any way to disable the intake air heater grid cycle in the ecm?
just had to throw that in there
BTW......since we have your attention, is there any way to disable the intake air heater grid cycle in the ecm?
just had to throw that in there
02-07-2008, 12:56 PM
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I've never looked into the grid heather thing. Searching for that kinda things is pretty time consuming. Right now we're working on a hugh project, not much time left...
02-07-2008, 01:09 PM
#53
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I would think it would be a nice feature, on sr or jr, to be able to set the wastegate, instead if eliminate it.. would allow to get more air, but not too much...
As well as activate the fogs with the highbeams...
But those are wishes.... thanks
As well as activate the fogs with the highbeams...
But those are wishes.... thanks
02-07-2008, 01:14 PM
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02-07-2008, 01:44 PM
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is it fair of me to point out the absence of the "nay-sayers" and piston nannies now that you've all heard the gospel of marco and bob? Mull it over, pick it apart and choose your next words carefully, as marco, son of Zues is listening.
02-07-2008, 02:33 PM
#56
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So basically Smarty and Smarty JR are safe products for our trucks. Even with egt's being so low, this is not directly coordinated with high egt temps. Correct? I thank bob and marco to responding to this post. When I made it I wasn't trying to make it into a huge debate, I was just looking for more information so sorry that this got way out of hand, with argumentation. Well I'll just keep running my smarty jr and loving every minut of it and I'll try to stay away form stirring the pot. Thanks for the answers guys the whole post was very beneficial to me and my learning curve.
Thanks for the answers guys the whole post was very beneficial to me and my learning curve.
02-07-2008, 03:08 PM
#58
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the thread is titled Piston Temps. What would prompt Bob or Marco to look into this thread. Do you honestly think they have the time to search every post in every thread of the many forums that they frequent? If you post Smarty=high temps, then it is much more likely that they will see it and respond. I know Bob, he doesnt avoid questions, comments, or even outright rants.
02-07-2008, 03:10 PM
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piston temps
Thats great that marco an bw replied to this thread.Thank you very much.I don't think anyone was really arguementative,thats what this forum is for,exchange of info and opinions.I've been a ase certified gas mechanic for close to twenty years and i still learn something everytime i'm on this site.thanks for the info.
