Jetpilot

I doubt that the Smarty Jr. is just doing timing to get a 40HP gain.

cquestad

The Smarty does NOT have too much timing...your problem lies elsewhere if you have "timing rattle". Maximum power and coolest exhaust temp (hottest piston temp...if you want to look at it that way) do not happen at the same point...injection timing wise...

Post turbo EGT readings are pointless...

MikeyB

Ok. Let's chew on this data that I have recorded over the years with my truck. All measurements is with the pyro mounted on the rear exhaust runner just above the turbo. Taken in 6th gear, WOT towing about 5k lbs.

Stock @ 24psi = 1250 degrees

EZ set to level 2 (50hp) @ 24psi = 1350 degrees

EZ set to level 2 (50hp) with adjustable boost elbow @ 32psi = 950 degrees

SMARTY at level 3 (60hp + timing) stock injector/aftermarket turbo program @ 32 psi = 1000 degrees

So from this data it shows that boost plays a major roll in EGT reduction for my setup and timing doesn't.

MikeyB

Minwy

I dont expect anyone to give out any programming secrets, but if they or any other aftermarket company has really done their homework they would know the answers to the questions we are asking. They should know what is happening inside the engine, and not just whether or not its making power. It would require some machine work but its not impossible, or even hard to measure cylinder temps inside the head next to the valves, CAT does it on all of their 35 series engines. Nor would it be hard to measure engine oil temperature to get a comparisson of the amount of heat introduced into the piston with each different program. Saying that the manufacturers dont have , dont need to , or shouldnt test these things is letting them off the hook and saying it's ok to release any kind of half-assed product out there and if I buy it and cause damage to my expensive engine its my fault, not theirs. I agree we have a responsiblity to use gauges, etc and monitor to the best of our ability what is going on with our trucks. The way I look at it the current smarty programming is completely different, with such low egt's a person could be well under 1300 degrees and not have any idea that the pistons are starting to melt down. They have a responsiblity to let the consumer know that yes/no they have tested all aspects of the engines performance and reliability and not just EGT's. No secrets need be given out, a simple yes or no would suffice.

HOHN

The answer you seek then is YES-- the Smarty can melt your engine.

Monitor your oil temp and you should be able to know what's going on.

JMO

Big Blue24

The Adrenaline is making monstrous power for us 2nd gen guys and when all the stars align within the programming parameters, timing gets bumped as much as 24-25*. Quad thinks these 2nd gen motors would be fine with 30* of timing but the rattle is so obnoxious and scary for some that they tone it down.

It is also interesting to note that you can advance timing more under boost with little to no increase in rattle. If timing is advanced without the air in the mix, rattle is much more pronounced.

So you guys that hear less rattle and think timing has been way reduced, you could be making false assumptions. Maybe, in fact, peak timing is the same, just the new tune waits for more boost before timing is advanced so as to avoid/mask some of the rattle.

I know for a fact that Quad tests cylinder pressure when they generate new tunes. So at least some of the performance guys are doing their homework.

SmokinOilBurner

I find it very odd the Bob and Marco have not chimed in. I thought part of what was so great about MaDDs was that they were there to answer every question. I have seen them post many times on much less important issues. I don't think it gives away any industry secrets to give a simple answer such as yes, it raises cylinder temperatures but to acceptable levels, or no temperatures are unknown, cannot be monitored or disguised through lower egt and you will definately melt your pistons. These guys are SMART people surely they know what is going on.

I just ordered gauges today--EGT, Boost, Trans temp--with full intention of ordering smarty soon. Now I am begining to wonder? Should I have order Oil temp gauge as well? Who has an oil temp gauge and what type of results are you finding?

matego

I am sure Bob or Marco do not know about this thread. Try to PM either one and see what they have to say.

I think I would worry a lot more about an injector hanging up, getting a bad batch of diesel, running "stock" filtered fuel, etc. than what a little added timing is doing to my piston crowns. These engines are over built and very tough in stock form, but the only truly safe 100% sure way to know it will last is to leave it alone.

Kman9090

Um Yeah?? We all know that extra fuel needs extra air. That is why when you go with big injectors you need a big turbo to cool it down. What really are you trying to get at? That if you build more boost you run lower egts? That also is not true either. Try running a stock tubo to 50 pounds of boost and see what happens.
Hohn do you work for smarty. We all know the answer a smarty will melt your engine if you don't monitor it. Anything will, we are just wanting to know if the lower egts is edciapted into the cylinder. We all know the more power you throw at these truck with no other mods the more heat you make. Just wanting to know where the heat is going. If they come on here and just explain it to us that will make me more then happy. I see other guys on here with edges that are running 1500 degrees no problem.

MikeyB

Well obviously you missed the data between the EZ and SMARTY EGTs. If the SMARTY is advancing the timing to the point of 'melting pistons' wouldn't I see lower EGTs than with the EZ that doesn't modify timing in a direct way??
And why do I have my stock turbo set to 32psi?? Think I know where the limit is with this turbo.

MikeyB

AH64ID

From all the info I have found on it 40hp is timing only.... thou Bob/Marco could reverify that.

mike moore

I e-mailed bw this thread this morning.Hopefully he is receptive and can chime in.

MikeyB

Oh, another item with the CR's. They come from the factory with retarded timing for emission reasons (NOx reduction). The CR responds very well to additional timing for that reason.

MikeyB

AH64ID

Exactly... I have gathered that the timing MADS does is putting it back to where Cummins would have put it IF the EPA hadn't said to clean up there emmissions.

Have you ever heard the timing on a 6.0???, that is if you can hear it over the turbo that spools at idle (yet still waits until 2K to make peak tq)....

Bob Wagner

Yes, software one is 40 hp increase with no added fuel. This is the first look at this thread.