New dually tires
05-14-2008, 05:46 PM
#31
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OK...here goes...start with this read...and let me know...all tests performed are at a percentage of LOAD RATING...regardless of load range...lol.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...ection=571.139
We will do it again...
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...ection=571.139
We will do it again...
05-14-2008, 05:54 PM
#33
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OK...here goes...start with this read...and let me know...all tests performed are at a percentage of LOAD RATING...regardless of load range...lol.
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...ection=571.139
We will do it again...
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...ection=571.139
We will do it again...
I can post some FMCSA reg if you think it makes you look smarter.
Better yet maybe Ford,Chevy,Dodge can use your design expertise to save them a few $$$ by running superior D rated tires on their trucks!
Some just can't admit their wrong can they?
This is for legallity!
§ 175.65. Tires and wheels.
(a) Condition of tires and wheels. Tires and wheels shall be in safe operating condition as described in § 175.80 (relating to inspection procedure).
(b) Tire standards. A vehicle specified under this subchapter shall have tires manufactured in conformance with standards in Chapter 159 (relating to new pneumatic tires). See 75 Pa.C.S. § 4525 (relating to tire equipment and traction surfaces). Tires with equivalent metric size designations may be used.
(c) Radial ply tires. A radial ply tire may not be used on the same axle with a bias or belted tire.
(d) Different types of tires. Tires of different types, such as one snow tire and one regular tire or bias, belted or radial tire, may not be used on the same axle except in an emergency.
(e) Nonpneumatic tires. A passenger car or light truck operated on highway may not be equipped with nonpneumatic tires except an antique vehicle with nonpneumatic tires if originally equipped by the manufacturer.
(f) Ice grips or studs. A tire may not be equipped with ice grips or tire studs or wear-resisting material which have projections exceeding 2/32 inch beyond the tread of the traction surface of the tire.
(g) Tires and rims. The axles of a vehicle specified under this subchapter shall be equipped with the number and type of tires and rims with a load rating equal to or higher than those offered by the manufacturer. (h) Spacers. Spacers or similar devices thicker than 1/4 inch may not be installed to increase wheel track.
05-14-2008, 06:13 PM
#34
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(g) Tires and rims. The axles of a vehicle specified under this subchapter shall be equipped with the number and type of tires and rims with a load rating equal to or higher than those offered by the manufacturer.
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So a D tire rated at more than the oem E should be sufficient.
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So a D tire rated at more than the oem E should be sufficient.
05-14-2008, 06:28 PM
#35
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(g) Tires and rims. The axles of a vehicle specified under this subchapter shall be equipped with the number and type of tires and rims with a load rating equal to or higher than those offered by the manufacturer.
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So a D tire rated at more than the oem E should be sufficient.
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So a D tire rated at more than the oem E should be sufficient.
It says load rating not weight rating.
ex: BFG AT KO 235/75R16 is E
load rating with 3042 weight rating
315/75R16 is D rated but has a weight rating of
3415
Although the weight rating is higher the load rating is less.
This is where the 50 psi vs 80 psi comes to play.
The 295 is larger and needs less air psi to support the weight than a 235 tire. Weight support is not the only force your tire will see rolling down the highway, it will encounter potholes, turning, braking and acceleration etc...this is why an E rated tire is used on 3/4 ton +.
Believe me if it was safe to do the manufactures would put lighter tires on their new trucks!
05-15-2008, 10:05 AM
#36
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Nope nope nope...
It shows the criteria for many tests...lets take just one.
Say the low pressure strength test.
It states to mount the tire to a set pressure based on Loage Range..
So...lets assume the D is an off road tire with a section greater than 11.5 inches...and the E is OEM with an 8.5 inch section...better comparison yet!
(I could do it the other way too if you want....)
The D gets 200 kpa or 29 psi and the E gets 320 kpa or 46 psi and then the tires are left at 32-38 degrees C (89-100 degrees F) for 2 hours.
The test then states to...
"S6.4.1.2.1 The test is conducted for ninety minutes at the end of the test specified in S6.3, continuous and uninterrupted, at a speed of 120 km/h (75 mph). For snow tires, conduct the test at not less than 110 km/h.
S6.4.1.2.2 Press the assembly against the outer face of a test drum with a diameter of 1.70 m + 1%.
S6.4.1.2.3 Apply to the test axle a load equal to 100% of the tire's maximum load carrying capacity.
S6.4.1.2.4 Throughout the test, the inflation pressure is not corrected and the test load is maintained at the initial level.
S6.4.1.2.5 During the test, the ambient temperature, at a distance of not less than 150 mm and not more than 1 m from the tire, is maintained at not less than 32 °C or more than 38 °C.
S6.4.1.2.6 Allow the tire to cool for between 15 minutes and 25 minutes. Measure its inflation pressure. Then, deflate the tire, remove it from the test rim, and inspect it for the conditions specified in S6.4.2(a).
S6.4.2 Performance requirements. When the tire is tested in accordance with S6.4.1:
(a) There shall be no visual evidence of tread, sidewall, ply, cord, innerliner, belt or bead separation, chunking, open splices, cracking, or broken cords, and
(b) The tire pressure, when measured at any time between 15 minutes and 25 minutes after the end of the test, shall not be less than 95% of the initial pressure specified in S6.4.1.1.1."
So basically...each tire is loaded to 100% of it LOAD rated capacity and run on a roller for a set time. So...the OEM E tire was loaded to 3200 lbs and lets say it was a 37x12.5x17 BFG MT LOAS RATED at 3700 lbs loaded to 3700 lbs...
Get it...the E tire was tested at a higher prssure (an advantage) at a lower weight (cause it was only rated at 3200 lbs) than the the D tire at a lower pressure (a disadvantage) at a higher weight (cause it was rated at 3700 lbs).
At the end of the test...both tires are held to the same performance description...no cracks, ruptures, leaks, etc etc etc.
So...which tire is stronger in this case?????
You tell me...lol. ;-)
Want another example broken down...or will you NOW agree/understand?
It shows the criteria for many tests...lets take just one.
Say the low pressure strength test.
It states to mount the tire to a set pressure based on Loage Range..
So...lets assume the D is an off road tire with a section greater than 11.5 inches...and the E is OEM with an 8.5 inch section...better comparison yet!
(I could do it the other way too if you want....)
The D gets 200 kpa or 29 psi and the E gets 320 kpa or 46 psi and then the tires are left at 32-38 degrees C (89-100 degrees F) for 2 hours.
The test then states to...
"S6.4.1.2.1 The test is conducted for ninety minutes at the end of the test specified in S6.3, continuous and uninterrupted, at a speed of 120 km/h (75 mph). For snow tires, conduct the test at not less than 110 km/h.
S6.4.1.2.2 Press the assembly against the outer face of a test drum with a diameter of 1.70 m + 1%.
S6.4.1.2.3 Apply to the test axle a load equal to 100% of the tire's maximum load carrying capacity.
S6.4.1.2.4 Throughout the test, the inflation pressure is not corrected and the test load is maintained at the initial level.
S6.4.1.2.5 During the test, the ambient temperature, at a distance of not less than 150 mm and not more than 1 m from the tire, is maintained at not less than 32 °C or more than 38 °C.
S6.4.1.2.6 Allow the tire to cool for between 15 minutes and 25 minutes. Measure its inflation pressure. Then, deflate the tire, remove it from the test rim, and inspect it for the conditions specified in S6.4.2(a).
S6.4.2 Performance requirements. When the tire is tested in accordance with S6.4.1:
(a) There shall be no visual evidence of tread, sidewall, ply, cord, innerliner, belt or bead separation, chunking, open splices, cracking, or broken cords, and
(b) The tire pressure, when measured at any time between 15 minutes and 25 minutes after the end of the test, shall not be less than 95% of the initial pressure specified in S6.4.1.1.1."
So basically...each tire is loaded to 100% of it LOAD rated capacity and run on a roller for a set time. So...the OEM E tire was loaded to 3200 lbs and lets say it was a 37x12.5x17 BFG MT LOAS RATED at 3700 lbs loaded to 3700 lbs...
Get it...the E tire was tested at a higher prssure (an advantage) at a lower weight (cause it was only rated at 3200 lbs) than the the D tire at a lower pressure (a disadvantage) at a higher weight (cause it was rated at 3700 lbs).
At the end of the test...both tires are held to the same performance description...no cracks, ruptures, leaks, etc etc etc.
So...which tire is stronger in this case?????
You tell me...lol. ;-)
Want another example broken down...or will you NOW agree/understand?
05-15-2008, 10:06 AM
#37
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Homewrecker...
Nice observation! ;-)
The only reason Dodge puts the OEM E on the truck is it is quieter, better for mileage, and might wear longer than say a high end BFG MT or AT that is sufficently load rated....
Oh ya...the main reason...COST!
If the OEM E is superior...why is it half the cost of the D tire I am using for this example?
Not all E's or D's or any tire is created or performs equal...that is why they have more specific ratind systems now than load range alone.
Speed Rating (used to be a much broader less specific Speed Range)
Load Rating (used to be a much broader less specific Load Range)
Wear Rating (used to be a much broader less specific Wear Range)
Nice observation! ;-)
The only reason Dodge puts the OEM E on the truck is it is quieter, better for mileage, and might wear longer than say a high end BFG MT or AT that is sufficently load rated....
Oh ya...the main reason...COST!
If the OEM E is superior...why is it half the cost of the D tire I am using for this example?
Not all E's or D's or any tire is created or performs equal...that is why they have more specific ratind systems now than load range alone.
Speed Rating (used to be a much broader less specific Speed Range)
Load Rating (used to be a much broader less specific Load Range)
Wear Rating (used to be a much broader less specific Wear Range)
05-15-2008, 12:14 PM
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Everyone here knows an E load rated tire is stronger than a D load rated tire! Why argue about it?
The original post was if D load tires would be OK.
They will work OK if you don't tow or haul, and it is illegal to run a lighter load rated tire than OEM.
The guy has the $$$$ to buy whatever tire he wants, he was just trying to save a few $$ with lighter tires.
The original post was if D load tires would be OK.
They will work OK if you don't tow or haul, and it is illegal to run a lighter load rated tire than OEM.
The guy has the $$$$ to buy whatever tire he wants, he was just trying to save a few $$ with lighter tires.
05-15-2008, 12:37 PM
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What part of what I have explained do you not understand...
No...an E range tire is not "stronger" than a D range tire UNLESS its LOAD RATING is higher...PERIOD.
Do I need to explain another test? Your right about the load rating...lighter than OEM is illegal...but that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOAD RANGE.
Again...quote...
(g) Tires and rims. The axles of a vehicle specified under this subchapter shall be equipped with the number and type of tires and rims with a load rating equal to or higher than those offered by the manufacturer.
You have yet to produce any technical data or literature to support your claim/opinion.
Are you as frusterated as I am yet?
No...an E range tire is not "stronger" than a D range tire UNLESS its LOAD RATING is higher...PERIOD.
Do I need to explain another test? Your right about the load rating...lighter than OEM is illegal...but that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LOAD RANGE.
Again...quote...
(g) Tires and rims. The axles of a vehicle specified under this subchapter shall be equipped with the number and type of tires and rims with a load rating equal to or higher than those offered by the manufacturer.
You have yet to produce any technical data or literature to support your claim/opinion.
Are you as frusterated as I am yet?
05-15-2008, 01:35 PM
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With a regular street tire d and e really matters, but when you get up into the bigger tires like 35's a d is plenty strong. I know tons of people that tow heavy all the time that will tell you that the e isn't worth the extra money. I run E's just because I feel better about it but like I said, once you get into the bigger tires, a D tire will handle most loads just fine
05-15-2008, 03:41 PM
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What part of what I have explained do you not understand...
No...an E range tire is not "stronger" than a D range tire UNLESS its LOAD RATING is higher...PERIOD.
(g) Tires and rims. The axles of a vehicle specified under this subchapter shall be equipped with the number and type of tires and rims with a load rating equal to or higher than those offered by the manufacturer.
No...an E range tire is not "stronger" than a D range tire UNLESS its LOAD RATING is higher...PERIOD.
(g) Tires and rims. The axles of a vehicle specified under this subchapter shall be equipped with the number and type of tires and rims with a load rating equal to or higher than those offered by the manufacturer.
Exactly an E is a higher load rating than a D
C
D
E
F
Why don't you get it?
05-15-2008, 03:47 PM
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Um...NO!
You are starting to make yourself look silly. Load rating (NOT RANGE) is a number...and NOT all E's are load rated higher than D's.
RE-READ the test/literature. I could not make my point any clearer backed with factual data.
You are starting to make yourself look silly. Load rating (NOT RANGE) is a number...and NOT all E's are load rated higher than D's.
RE-READ the test/literature. I could not make my point any clearer backed with factual data.
05-15-2008, 04:31 PM
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D/3700 > E/3200
No matter how you look at it.
I have yet to hear of anyone having a problem with higher load rated tires being hassled for them not being "E range" like the factory tires(with a lower load rating)
Maybe an accident with a commercial truck involved, in which a tire blew out or something, but again I havent heard anything from any of the people I know that tow pretty heavy...(30k-45k)
Like cquestad said, the higher load rated D tires(which also usually are taller diameter tires), have a pretty thick sidewall to go along with the taller sidewall height to prevent any more roll/sway associated with the taller tires...
Just an opinion, but my 37" Pro comps(@50psi) feel much stiffer/more stable than my factory E range 265s @70-75psi....
No matter how you look at it.
I have yet to hear of anyone having a problem with higher load rated tires being hassled for them not being "E range" like the factory tires(with a lower load rating)
Maybe an accident with a commercial truck involved, in which a tire blew out or something, but again I havent heard anything from any of the people I know that tow pretty heavy...(30k-45k)
Like cquestad said, the higher load rated D tires(which also usually are taller diameter tires), have a pretty thick sidewall to go along with the taller sidewall height to prevent any more roll/sway associated with the taller tires...
Just an opinion, but my 37" Pro comps(@50psi) feel much stiffer/more stable than my factory E range 265s @70-75psi....
05-15-2008, 05:51 PM
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Straight from Cooper tire engineer!
I guess I couldn't make it clear enough, hope this make it clearer!
Rick,
Thanks for your question regarding E vs D rated tires.
Pay no attention to the numeriacal load rating. It is what the tire tread is rated for. If your sitting still it may make a difference. The only thing that counts is the Alphabetic rating, "D" or "E". This is the sidewall rating. This is what the tires are rated to handle in actual driving situations such as cornering and sidewall strength. An E rated tire with less weight rating is still stronger for your truck then a D rated tire with a higher number. When you consider that the front end of your truck weighs over 6000 pounds even when your runnin empty you are pushing a D rated tire right off the bat. We all know that there is a degree of safety built in to everything we buy and this is what your counting on when your running D rated tires.
I know it's been done a thousand times by a thousand people but your pushing your luck with D rated tires. This also why you see so many tread seperations though. Be safe and go with an E rated tire.
Sincerly
%#$ &&^^&(*(*
I guess I couldn't make it clear enough, hope this make it clearer!
Rick,
Thanks for your question regarding E vs D rated tires.
Pay no attention to the numeriacal load rating. It is what the tire tread is rated for. If your sitting still it may make a difference. The only thing that counts is the Alphabetic rating, "D" or "E". This is the sidewall rating. This is what the tires are rated to handle in actual driving situations such as cornering and sidewall strength. An E rated tire with less weight rating is still stronger for your truck then a D rated tire with a higher number. When you consider that the front end of your truck weighs over 6000 pounds even when your runnin empty you are pushing a D rated tire right off the bat. We all know that there is a degree of safety built in to everything we buy and this is what your counting on when your running D rated tires.
I know it's been done a thousand times by a thousand people but your pushing your luck with D rated tires. This also why you see so many tread seperations though. Be safe and go with an E rated tire.
Sincerly
%#$ &&^^&(*(*