Lacking power so I thought I'd add some propane
10-17-2006, 06:42 PM
#16
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Does adding nitrous do the same thing as LPG? BY advancing timmng? I allways figures nitrous was safer than some lead you to believe, so thats why I'm throwing caution to the wind with my stock headbolts/gasket and installing a 100hp shot next week.
10-17-2006, 07:28 PM
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No, N20 and LPG are drastically different animals.
The only thing in common is that they will both increase cylinder pressures.
LPG is fuel. Just like finding a way to spray more diesel down the intake.
N20 is simply compressed oxygen. Now it is very cold and dense so you get a lot of oxgyen with a very small shot.
LPG helps burn fuel because the flash point is lower and when you stick it in the cylinder it ignites first then ignites the diesel. This is why it advances the timing.
N20 helps burn fuel because more oxygen = more fire.
N20 is not a whole lot different than adding a larger turbo or multiple turbos to gain a lot of boost. The advantage to N20 is that you can only use it when you want and it does not require anything to drive it or spool it.
Now if you spray too much too early you can literally put the fire out which is not good. If you spray too much overall you will likely just slighlty put the fire out and loose power before you hurt anything. If you have enough fuel to go with the N20 then you can have cylinder pressure issues.
All in all N20 is much safer than LPG. You do not have to worry about advancing timing too much.
The only thing in common is that they will both increase cylinder pressures.
LPG is fuel. Just like finding a way to spray more diesel down the intake.
N20 is simply compressed oxygen. Now it is very cold and dense so you get a lot of oxgyen with a very small shot.
LPG helps burn fuel because the flash point is lower and when you stick it in the cylinder it ignites first then ignites the diesel. This is why it advances the timing.
N20 helps burn fuel because more oxygen = more fire.
N20 is not a whole lot different than adding a larger turbo or multiple turbos to gain a lot of boost. The advantage to N20 is that you can only use it when you want and it does not require anything to drive it or spool it.
Now if you spray too much too early you can literally put the fire out which is not good. If you spray too much overall you will likely just slighlty put the fire out and loose power before you hurt anything. If you have enough fuel to go with the N20 then you can have cylinder pressure issues.
All in all N20 is much safer than LPG. You do not have to worry about advancing timing too much.
10-18-2006, 05:38 AM
#20
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Thats what I figured. Just needed to here it from more of an expert though. So what happens if you do shoot it too soon and she white smokes real bad and dies? I allways thought in a compression engine, you don't have the detonation problem as with gasoline. Wouldn't it be akin to just running out of fuel?
10-18-2006, 07:01 AM
#21
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Yep, No more Smarty with timing plus TST with 18degrees plus H2 Cam plus 50/50 water/meth for me....The laws of nature and diesel just don't like it.
10-19-2006, 12:03 PM
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The propane does not start the burn earlier in the cylinder, it can not ignite on it's own, it needs the diesel fuel event to take place, once that happens, the idea is to burn the propane vapor present completely and take more of the diesel fuel along with it. The power and mileage gains come from this more complete burn of the diesel fuel. Not the propane. The key is to use a small controlled amount of propane.
Scaring people that have used it for many miles without issue is hard to do
Many things destroy motors on a highly modified engine, hard to point a finger, do anything improperly and you will have issues. It sounds like these guys are doing it the right way.
Scaring people that have used it for many miles without issue is hard to do
Many things destroy motors on a highly modified engine, hard to point a finger, do anything improperly and you will have issues. It sounds like these guys are doing it the right way.
10-19-2006, 12:12 PM
#23
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Just what I hate.... Conflicting reports...
Ok, does the propane ignite before the diesel or vice-versa...?
Guess I gotta do some research on this propane gas...
Ok, does the propane ignite before the diesel or vice-versa...?
Guess I gotta do some research on this propane gas...
10-19-2006, 12:40 PM
#24
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Did some research. Here's what I found. Propane combusts at around 487degrees Celcius. That's about 920-1029 degrees Farenheit. What that tells me is there is no way propane will ignite first in our combustion chamber. If it did, then diesel would have to fire off much higher than that and if that were the case none of our trucks would ever start...
Unless we had those super-nuclear grid heaters installed...
Unless we had those super-nuclear grid heaters installed...
10-19-2006, 12:41 PM
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As long as the propane is below its L.E.L. (lower explosive limit) it won't burn, on its own.. if you increase the propane flow high enough, ~10-20% you start getting close to detonation.
10-19-2006, 12:57 PM
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Diesel is not ignited by heat, it is iginited by compression.
Propane will not ignite on its own, that is correct but, if you add oxygen and compression it will ignite.
It makes absolutely no sense that propane burns after the diesel is lit. How in the world do you expect a more complete burn by adding more fuel? The only way to get a more complete burn is to start the process earlier or to add more air. There are no ifs and buts about that.
Propane will not ignite on its own, that is correct but, if you add oxygen and compression it will ignite.
It makes absolutely no sense that propane burns after the diesel is lit. How in the world do you expect a more complete burn by adding more fuel? The only way to get a more complete burn is to start the process earlier or to add more air. There are no ifs and buts about that.
10-19-2006, 01:00 PM
#28
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qzilla,
Diesel is not ignited by compression if it was then the CP3 on my truck would have long since exploded.
The compression raises the air temp then high pressure diesel is injected into this heated compressed air and combustion occurs.
Diesel is not ignited by compression if it was then the CP3 on my truck would have long since exploded.
The compression raises the air temp then high pressure diesel is injected into this heated compressed air and combustion occurs.
10-19-2006, 01:34 PM
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Diesel is not ignited by heat, it is iginited by compression.
Propane will not ignite on its own, that is correct but, if you add oxygen and compression it will ignite.
It makes absolutely no sense that propane burns after the diesel is lit. How in the world do you expect a more complete burn by adding more fuel? The only way to get a more complete burn is to start the process earlier or to add more air. There are no ifs and buts about that.
Propane will not ignite on its own, that is correct but, if you add oxygen and compression it will ignite.
It makes absolutely no sense that propane burns after the diesel is lit. How in the world do you expect a more complete burn by adding more fuel? The only way to get a more complete burn is to start the process earlier or to add more air. There are no ifs and buts about that.