hognutz

if you link me to the photo's I will put them in the thread.

I also want to chime in though on mechnicals. carbon steel is stronger than aluminum in a given thickness. Aluminum can be stronger than steel in a given design. I can honestly say I am not sure which tower is stronger. you have a billet piece vs a welded piece. there is also a question of test method. I think the towers that sean has built will be very strong in a linear load situation and if the suspension is designed correctly that is what you hope you have. If I were to question the strenght at all it would be more in a lateral direction and I can honestly say I don't know how much energy there is in that direction. I do alot of testing where I work now. Our product has to survive a plane crash. sometimes you test methode can scew results. I do not belive a 9mm is a good test method for strenght in this case. I does however make for cool pics though.

now there is a flip side to that coin. a properly desined suspension that uses bump stops and proper travel only needs X amount of support or as much support as the mounting method can handle. once the tower is strong enoug it is strong enough. Overdesign is more espensive. As long as the tower meets this demand it is sufficent.

I can honestly say without any testing I think they are plenty sufficent for a street driven truck. There is only a small percentage of people who have the ball/supidity to drive a truck this expensive hard enough to need more.

Cowhand

Hey Sean,
I've been told you're a good guy so please don't take any of this as a slam.

The competitor you speak of doesn't post much over here because he doesn't need to....he's got a pretty loyal following on the other board and enough folks running his stuff over here to advertise his product. He probably gets tired of answering the same questions over and over until he feels like he's wasting his breath. His product speaks for itself, even if some of us feel the price isn't in line. He isn't doing anything that any other manufacturer doesn't do as far as saying his product is better than the next, kinda like the truck commercials that show one brand outpulling another. He can back his claims up, because until recently he was the only game in town for a true performance bolt on system. I'm not defending him, or his front man, just calling it what it is. Ya gotta admit, he led and everybody else is following.
That being said....as mentioned above there is some stiff competition coming his way. I think all of us will benefit from that, not necessarily price wise, but in that the first guy set the benchmark for the next guy to improve on. I spent some time talking to one of them today and I was pretty impressed with what I heard. Nice guy too.


I am curious as to how you came up with a 580# spring rate. I'm sure they work great for your snow plow guys, simply because a plow adds a boatload of sprung weight.

IIRC, the sprung weight of a 3rd Gen (without a plow) is about 1800-1900 lbs./wheel on the front corners. Assuming ( ) a linear rate spring, this means at a 580# coil rate, the springs will compress ~3" to ride height. If you have 4-5" of compression travel, that means you have 5-6" of droop. See where I'm going? 5-6" of droop means the coil unseats by 2-3", and without a coil retainer chances are there's gonna be some carnage if the coil doesn't seat when the suspension compresses again. The only other option is a limit strap to limit droop to 3" or less, then you don't have 10" of travel anymore.

It also throws off your valving, because now you have to valve lighter on compression and heavier on rebound so the front end doesn't pogo. The higher spring rate is great if you're increasing the sprung rate, but if not then I think you'd really see the benefit in a lower spring rate and a little stiffer compression/lighter rebound valving. Flutter stacks work great with the lighter rate springs and work very well on the low speed and high speed stuff.

Just to give you an idea...my spring rate is ~ 200# lighter than yours on the front of my 2nd gen and it works great on road and off. I run a 12" travel shock and +6" ride height, and with the lighter spring rate, my coil is still seated at full droop.

Again, not trying to slam you, just something to chew on a little bit.

hognutz

here are the pics from the dtr thread.

realsquash

Maybe I should keep my yap shut but what's so hard and secretive about building a coilover tower? The designs shown in this thread look just fine. Most of the people buying these things are posers and only care what it looks like, not how it performs.

Andy

04 SO CA

Probably a good Idea realsquash. Many of us are in the market for a top quality suspension, and appreciate information about products offered. I agree that there are some posers, but I don't think this thread is geared toward them.

hognutz

wile I also agree that most people think that they need a $4000 suspension and never will use it to it full potential, it is still there money. . It is like that in any hobby I have. motorcycles, hot rods, etc. Someone is always willing to spend money on somethig they don't really need but it is still there money.

There are those who want the best whether they need it or not. It is not a crime to spend money on your rig. I mean if I did not have three cars and want to by a new street bike this summer I would have bough a more expensive lift even though I don't need it. I just have too many toys for my income so I have to be careful where I blow my money.

So are you saying that if you buy a sweet suspention and don't literally race you are a poser? I think 99% of people fit that catagory.

nriver

Two things, great board. I am liking it more than TDR. Found it while I was doing some random searches last week. I have been holding off posting, did not want to sound like a cheerleader…..bla bla bla. First post here, no creditability …..bla bal bla

Second thing, Re reading this thread I noticed I was mentioned earlier. I am the person who installed a Lorenz set up earlier this month. I also have pictures I can work on getting posted, if wanted.

I am willing to try and answer any questions I can, and yes, I am happy with the purchase.

Bruce

realsquash

Yes, that's what I'm saying. But that's OK, I was actually supporting the competition to Kore here. It's a free country.

I'm just grumpy today. Didn't get my fix

Andy

DPU

Just to clarify-

KORE pic. 2.5 FOX race Shock

Lorenz pic. is it a 2.5 or 2.0/emulsion or reservoir???

hognutz

no biggy I am grumpy every day. without fail someone takes a breath of my air or looks at me wrong before the day is over.

tristan21

Sorry fellas I must've burned shawn out on questions. Looks like he gave up or is just too busy.

I guess that still leaves me wondering if someone else has figured out a way to get full travel (atleast the 10" shawn spoke of) with an air bag. It seems to me that a guy could built a setup outside of the leaf spring area and just use a hard alloy metal to pin the air bag in place when towing or on the street and then remove it when off-road. The only problemis convenience. Lets face it convenience is the reason most things sell and even if it just took a few seconds to do would you want to get out and have to reset you edge module so you can smoke a camaro, NO. Plus you would have to store the air bag. I think that if someone were to design an inexpensive (meaning cheaper than KORE but could be more than the Lorenz) kit that would totally suit everyones needs off-road or towing, I think the average joe would be willing to pay 3 to 4 grand for that. I know I would. Shawn you mentioned that you were working on that style of kit or atleast know of someone doing that and I for one think that should be, for a suspension manufacturer a good product to research. If people knew it would sell I think specialty shops like these would jump all over it.
Just my .02.

P.s. I have to say shawn that I am concerned about the spring staying in the spring pocket like cowhand mentioned. This is a good point that I had never considered and as I WILL be one of the customers who use this to its full capabilities, I would like the assurance that this will not be the case with some proof of testing that there is absolutly no chance.

Would like to see those pics nriver if you get the time to load them. Lorenz is still one of the shops im considering and it might help to shed some light on this subject.

Cowhand

Here's a couple more options for you.....call Defiant Truck Products and talk to Sage, he sounds like a pretty dang sharp guy and a nice guy to deal with. Somebody posted the link somewhere in this thread.

You can also call Don Thuren, Don does all his design and fabrication himself and I'm pretty happy with his work. He can set up a spring and shock combo for the ride height you want and can probably figure something out so you can run bags in the back. You'd only need the bags for compression anyhow unless you plan on doing a 4-link rear on bags. Think of the bag as similar to an overload or helper spring.

Don's a ringer on shock valving too, he dialed mine in

DPU

Carli Suspension

As for the offroad airbags involving a pin to remove for full travel I know Offroad Unlimited has been doing this on the Furd Superduty for a while.

tristan21

Thanks cowhand , I will give that a shot when work calms down during the day a little bit. I also plan to call Lorenz and talk to them personally as well as call sage. Do you have Thuren's info or a link to his site?
As I mentioned in another thread I also have a company that does fabrication work (unrelated field, stainless process piping) that I know I will be more than capable of designing something stout that would look good and withhold some torture, but the big deal is the suspension design I am unfamiliar with. Probably not as complex as it appears but I like to start with a good working system and later build and make improvments to that. That is why I was looking at ready made systems that I thought all performed as advertised or in some form close to it. I still havnt decided that I want to fully take matters in my own hands yet but I am loosing faith. It sure would be a real bummer to buy 7-8 hundred dollars worth of shocks only to find out they were to long/short etc.. or worse yet to be stranded along side the road with trailer in-tow and have an airbag failure due to poor design. If it wont function to its fullest then im not gonna be happy. Yep high strung and real hard-headed but I am willing to do the necessary research if the gain is a finished product that performs.

Boz007

http://www.thurenfabrication.com/