KORE now has competition!!!! A good thing.....
02-08-2006, 09:23 PM
#31
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I've been sitting on the sidelines watching this one pan out.....
tristan, I'll throw some more no-nonsense plain english at ya....
If you're not racing, you don't need to break the spring packs down regularly, recoat them and replace the pads and bushings. Racers do this for the same reason they tear everything else down after a race, to make sure it won't fail during the next race. Leaf springs require very little maintenance. I would suggest that you get the softest pair of leafs you can find and then back them up with a set of air bags for towing- pump the bags up for towing, air 'em down for off road. If you have an air source, you can tow the trailer out, air down the bags and beat the truck, then air up again to tow home. To give you an idea, I'm looking at getting spring pack built with ~250# rate.
Personally, I like hydro bumps better than poly, but for most guys the cost difference isn't justified. You're looking at a $500-600 price difference between hydro and poly when you figure in the bumps, cans and mounting....hydro bumps require welding a can to the frame and fabricating a pad for the shaft end to hit. Valve shims will not take the place of a bump stop, hydro or poly. Changing the valve shims simply changes the velocity at which the oil flows through the piston, which to put it simply either "softens" or "firms up" the shock. Adding shims or changing to thicker shims will just make the shock ride worse in the low speed stuff, unless you're running a bypass shock (which usually won't fit in the coil) or your shock vendor knows how to set up flutter stacks. All performance shocks run a shim or combination of shims, that's how the valving is changed. If you plan on running a 10" travel shock, hydro bumps probably aren't worth the time and money.
As far as ladder or traction bars....you really don't need them for the set up you're getting at. The set up that you see on alot of desert trucks is a 3 link with long trailing arms, used in conjunction with coilovers. These trucks run in upwards of 32" or more of rear travel. You'll almost need to make a decision...drag racing and sled pulling or off road performance. The only other option would be to put traction or ladder bars on for pulling or drags and pull them off for off road.
For the CA's, once you get past ~3" increased ride height you'll need to look at longer CA's. You're on the money, the higher the ride height, the more the axle moves back. IMO, anything over 4" increased ride height requires longer control arms.
PS, onesloryd is right about Deaver, I've heard this from a couple folks now....KORE has them locked up for anything Dodge. Stay away from National...I'd suggest Alcan or Atlas.
tristan, I'll throw some more no-nonsense plain english at ya....
If you're not racing, you don't need to break the spring packs down regularly, recoat them and replace the pads and bushings. Racers do this for the same reason they tear everything else down after a race, to make sure it won't fail during the next race. Leaf springs require very little maintenance. I would suggest that you get the softest pair of leafs you can find and then back them up with a set of air bags for towing- pump the bags up for towing, air 'em down for off road. If you have an air source, you can tow the trailer out, air down the bags and beat the truck, then air up again to tow home. To give you an idea, I'm looking at getting spring pack built with ~250# rate.
Personally, I like hydro bumps better than poly, but for most guys the cost difference isn't justified. You're looking at a $500-600 price difference between hydro and poly when you figure in the bumps, cans and mounting....hydro bumps require welding a can to the frame and fabricating a pad for the shaft end to hit. Valve shims will not take the place of a bump stop, hydro or poly. Changing the valve shims simply changes the velocity at which the oil flows through the piston, which to put it simply either "softens" or "firms up" the shock. Adding shims or changing to thicker shims will just make the shock ride worse in the low speed stuff, unless you're running a bypass shock (which usually won't fit in the coil) or your shock vendor knows how to set up flutter stacks. All performance shocks run a shim or combination of shims, that's how the valving is changed. If you plan on running a 10" travel shock, hydro bumps probably aren't worth the time and money.
As far as ladder or traction bars....you really don't need them for the set up you're getting at. The set up that you see on alot of desert trucks is a 3 link with long trailing arms, used in conjunction with coilovers. These trucks run in upwards of 32" or more of rear travel. You'll almost need to make a decision...drag racing and sled pulling or off road performance. The only other option would be to put traction or ladder bars on for pulling or drags and pull them off for off road.
For the CA's, once you get past ~3" increased ride height you'll need to look at longer CA's. You're on the money, the higher the ride height, the more the axle moves back. IMO, anything over 4" increased ride height requires longer control arms.
PS, onesloryd is right about Deaver, I've heard this from a couple folks now....KORE has them locked up for anything Dodge. Stay away from National...I'd suggest Alcan or Atlas.
02-08-2006, 09:36 PM
#32
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Sean, I have a couple questions for you....
Are you still running that 580# coil?
How many inches compression/droop on a 10" travel SAW shock with your springs and towers at ride height?
Are you recommending limit straps or not?
Wondering if I'll send my 3rd Gen buddies your way....
Are you still running that 580# coil?
How many inches compression/droop on a 10" travel SAW shock with your springs and towers at ride height?
Are you recommending limit straps or not?
Wondering if I'll send my 3rd Gen buddies your way....
02-08-2006, 09:36 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by LORENZ
Great salesmen eh?
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02-08-2006, 10:22 PM
#35
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Sean, I see in your website that you are offering a three leaf pack. Others are offering a five leaf pack. Please explain the difference. I am in the market for a suspension upgrade. Just about made the purchased from competitor before learning about yours. Now I'm not sure. From what you say, Sway-A-Ways seems like a good choice, but I must admit that I have not heard of them until recently. You don't offer anti sway bar drop blocks. What is your take on these.
Thanks...Rick
Thanks...Rick
02-08-2006, 10:32 PM
#36
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Thanks Cowhand. First off, a few months back I was gonna steal your Rusty pic for my icon but I did'nt know how and figured you woud'nt appreciate it. Anyway I cant say enough thanks to the wife for the laptop as I am learning tons of info off this and other sites and threads like this are what I crave. Not alot of books on the thrashing a 3rd Gen out there ya know and always being on the road was really cutting into my internet learning curve.
I had previously considered the air bag method but having never delt with them I figured it would just be in the way of the real operation of the suspension when four wheeling and using the suspension to its fullest. I read on here that if you dont leave some air in them, then you could pinch the bag. Also I have seen a few guys that say they have busted the Firestones when putting heavy loads under it. I dont think I tow as much, as often as those guys though. Who would you look into? The guys over at Kelderman are building a truck for baja next year they told me but I am not sure about those guys yet.
I had previously considered the air bag method but having never delt with them I figured it would just be in the way of the real operation of the suspension when four wheeling and using the suspension to its fullest. I read on here that if you dont leave some air in them, then you could pinch the bag. Also I have seen a few guys that say they have busted the Firestones when putting heavy loads under it. I dont think I tow as much, as often as those guys though. Who would you look into? The guys over at Kelderman are building a truck for baja next year they told me but I am not sure about those guys yet.
02-08-2006, 10:40 PM
#37
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You can have it now.....I can't stand Kurt Busch.
You don't have to leave much air in the bags...they won't interfere if you run a lighter spring rate.
I'll reserve judgement on Kelderman's Baja set up until I've seen it hold together for the duration of the race......
You don't have to leave much air in the bags...they won't interfere if you run a lighter spring rate.
I'll reserve judgement on Kelderman's Baja set up until I've seen it hold together for the duration of the race......
02-08-2006, 11:02 PM
#38
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Ya, Kahne needs to get off his kiester this year and make sumthin happen for the guys over at dodge to be proud of. Mcmurray is fron an hour south of me but he went to ford. Besides he is from joplin, MO which is highly regarded as a hotbed for homosexual activity and he gets alot of local flack for that. He never bothered me but a guy that works for me hates him.
Is this setup just bolted directly to the frame over the middle of the spring or in the back?
Is this setup just bolted directly to the frame over the middle of the spring or in the back?
02-09-2006, 12:14 AM
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Great pics Lorenz and nice looking towers. When you say high carbon steel what grade do you mean? I was wondering also about what method you use to pin the shock at the top and what they are made of. I notice that in your 3d stress picture that the pin area is (of course) the most highly stressed part of the tower. So the pin alloy and its hardness is important. I sure do keep you busy answering ?'s dont I. A guy should'nt have to work this hard for his money. Thanks.
02-09-2006, 01:40 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by LORENZ
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I can tell you that after our races we go through the whole truck and check everything, and that's every race!! We may not tear it all apart but we inspect it. Some things have only so many races on them and even if they look good we change them or at least have a back up ready. We don't run leafs(4 link) but we inspect the crap out of everything just the same. It makes us all feel a little more confident in the truck, especially at the speeds we run. I think Sean(Lorenz) has seen us run or at least knows about us. I have some older pics in my gallery of the race truck.
See you at the next race Sean?
Nick
02-09-2006, 03:54 PM
#43
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Sean,
I see some good questions here. I'd like to get your take on some comparisons as well?
How do your 3-leafpacks compare to competitors 5-leafpack?
How do your 2.0 race shocks (in the pic.) compare to competitors 2.5 race shocks?
Your towers seem to "look" (hence the word) weakest (not as beefy) compared to the competitions. Are those welds really as strong as a solid chunk of 6061-T6 billet is?
*NOT trying to discredit you, your work, or product, just looking for some comparison factors and proven tested facts. I'd just like to know why in your mind and products "LESS IS MORE".
I see some good questions here. I'd like to get your take on some comparisons as well?
How do your 3-leafpacks compare to competitors 5-leafpack?
How do your 2.0 race shocks (in the pic.) compare to competitors 2.5 race shocks?
Your towers seem to "look" (hence the word) weakest (not as beefy) compared to the competitions. Are those welds really as strong as a solid chunk of 6061-T6 billet is?
*NOT trying to discredit you, your work, or product, just looking for some comparison factors and proven tested facts. I'd just like to know why in your mind and products "LESS IS MORE".
