What are some takes on this. I have been working with a guy on injectors for a 3rd gen. I have NO probs with his work on the older trucks as far as them messing up. I installed a set of 3rd gen injectors in a truck that has 2 dead injectors (But were repairable). He wanted to get a 90 HP bump while we had them out....so i got them done. I got the sticks back and installed them in the truck. Only for the cust to drive down the road 3 miles and the truck started missing and white smoking like crazy!!!! I took them back out. He sent me a new set that were the same HP. I installed them and had a dead hole on #5. I pulled it and installed one of the first injectors from the first set (the orignal injectors from the truck). That fixed the prob and ran like a bat out of hell! Just untill last week. Now #2 is missing at RPM's above 1800....its popping and such.......can the truck be causing this? I have never had soooooo much probs with injectors in my life....infact...this will be my last 3rd gen....i have waisted way too much time with this....any suggestions?

Dan

Truck is as follows:

2003 Auto. New Motor (First one let go eariler this year for reasons not covered by wnty!!) Motor has a red top with gray engine paint....first one i have seen. 555 Ft/lb from what i gather.

 

How are you testing them in the first place, like before you are putting them in the truck ?

3rd gen injectors are totally, totally different from previous injectors. They run on pressure-time. Previous ones run on positive displacement from the pump. Are you sure you are getting the air out of the rail/lines/injectors before pronouncing them dead ?

Is he working on the nozzles only or the pilot valve as well ?

What was the source of the injectors and how did they run before he worked on them ?

 

Sorry....i should have been somewhat clearer. I got them tested the first time and tip was replacedin #4. He EDM them and sent them back. Lasted 3 miles. I got another set that was known to be good. One injector's tip was sticking shut. I changed it out with one of the known good ones from the orignal set and it ran fine for about 2 months. No probs. Then all of the sudden a high RPM miss/popping from the #2 now is the issue. Just alot of work to get thoes sticks in and out...im just ****** that they are messing up again! I want a reason...so the issue can be advoided!!!! I would rather not mention the source of the injectors......because he is working with me....all i can say....you get what you pay for aparently. He is just working over the nozzles from what i gather.....

 

Who is testing them and with what before they go in your truck ?

 

From what i gather, he sends them off to a place that works with thoes injectors. He has them tested and repaired if needed while they are there. I had to pay for the test to be done to advoid all this freaking headache!

 

"I got them tested the first time and tip was replacedin #4."

OK.

"He EDM them and sent them back. Lasted 3 miles. "

What happened then ? What were the symptoms ?

"I got another set that was known to be good. One injector's tip was sticking shut."

How did you discern that ?

"I changed it out with one of the known good ones from the orignal set and it ran fine for about 2 months. No probs. Then all of the sudden a high RPM miss/popping from the #2 now is the issue."

Smoke ? white ? black ? Under load ? idle ? high idle ? How did you discern it was number 2 ?

"Just alot of work to get thoes sticks in and out...im just ****** that they are messing up again! I want a reason...so the issue can be advoided!!!!"

You should change injectors in a PSD sometime. Then you would have something to complain about.

 

Haha...for some strange reason....i would prefer a PSD! 7.3 that is....haha..dont know about the 6.0 yet! Anyway...moot point.

I sent the set back he had them retested. They said i had one injector (Orignal set) with the tip stuck open. White smoke with a sound that could only be described like a Rod Knocking.

On the second set, they said that the tip was stuck shut. MUCH less smoke...but some white out the pipe. Knock gone...just a miss.

I pulled the dead injector and replaced it with a known working unit out of the first set. Fixed my problem. truck ran fine with tons of power and black smoke untill full boost.

Last week it started to pop under full throttle. then it got worse untill it was just under heavy accell over 1800 RPM...but no real big loss of power or no abnormal smoke. He took it to a pump shop today and had them run a balance test i assume.

 

"From what i gather, he sends them off to a place that works with thoes injectors. He has them tested and repaired if needed while they are there. I had to pay for the test to be done to advoid all this freaking headache!"

Ask to see the test results. You paid for that. See what was actually tested on them and how. Ask what make and model of machine they were tested on. They should be able to tell you about opening pressures, spray pattens, volume delivered at various speeds, leakback, etc.

I hope "some guy" didn't open up your injectors, do the nozzles and close them back up without properly testing them.

If you answer the other questions and I'll comment more.

 

Im going to get him on the phone now....and see what the deal is......im never going to do these injectors again....too much liability

 

"Haha...for some strange reason....i would prefer a PSD! 7.3 that is....haha..dont know about the 6.0 yet! Anyway...moot point."

Be careful what you wish for...

"I sent the set back he had them retested. They said i had one injector (Orignal set) with the tip stuck open. White smoke with a sound that could only be described like a Rod Knocking."

OK. Tips generally stick open because of debris or fouling. The debris can be inside the injector when it is assembled, it can pass through the fuel system into the injector or it can be the result of broken pieces in the injector.

"On the second set, they said that the tip was stuck shut. MUCH less smoke...but some white out the pipe. Knock gone...just a miss."

Tips generally don't stick shut unless debris seizes the needle and then it is much more likely that the nozzle was stuck open rather than shut. I suspect this was a mis diagnosis. Did all the nozzle holes plug ? Unlikely but possible. I suspect that something went wrong in the pilot valve of the injector.

"I pulled the dead injector and replaced it with a known working unit out of the first set. Fixed my problem. truck ran fine with tons of power and black smoke untill full boost.
Last week it started to pop under full throttle. then it got worse untill it was just under heavy accell over 1800 RPM...but no real big loss of power or no abnormal smoke. He took it to a pump shop today and had them run a balance test i assume."

The thing about common rail injectors is that the failure of one can throw off the next one in the firing order and you have to be very careful about how you test them.

And so what is the status of these injectors now ?

 

You cant EDM a stock injector nozzle without risking reliability and durability. Just because a guy has an EDM machine does not mean he has a clue about injector nozzles, their design limitations and the risk involved in hardened zones inherent with EDM processing on steels.

Get your money back, if you can, and get some stock nozzles back in the truck before one fails and eats a cylinder or the entire engine. The injector could fail in just the right place and dump an enormous ammount of fuel into the cylinder in short order. Enough to hydrolock the thing.

Don~

 

What do you test CR injectors with, Don M ?

 

I can fully pressure test, pop test and flow test them.

His problem is not testing though, its the methodology used to modify them.

Don~

 

That is what i am thinking. He didnt want to spend the cash....i pitched the "High End" injectors....but he was going to sell the truck....which he should still do. So didnt want to sink a ton of money into the truck. Now he has changed his mind about it.

For my sake, is there anything i could have done installing them to cause any of these problems? I am an honest person and i take pride in my work. I want to cover all bases here.....especaly if it comes down to a blame game.....which i dont think it will.

Ill will discuss all this with the gent tommrow (i had to leave a message) and see what our options are. Like I said...ill stick to the easy ones from now on......My Mach 2's are working just fine and took all of an hour to stick in!

Thanks Don for helping out....you were one that i wanted to hear from on this........and also much thanks Superduty for your input.