TAS05CTD610

Ok, this won't be a thread about how to eliminate the 3rd injection event. However here's my understanding. You have a pre shot (quiet the motor) then 3 main injections (power) then a post (keep kitty clean). I know some box manufactures use pressure, timing, and duration. So if you can change WHEN and HOW LONG the injecter is open say using a TST couldn't you program it so that the 5th injection (3rd event) was used on the main power stroke?. Instead of streatching each of the 3, just add the 4th to that spot? I don't know how electronics work (i'm a mechanical engineer) but thinking out loud you should be able to change WHEN the even takes place???

I'm sure there's a million things about this I don't know, but I just got to thinking about this and was like hmmmmmmm

sled4fun

If everything else can be mapped out in the ECU I don't see why not. Someone needs to make an offroad box That way it will not apply to onroad EPA standards.

HaulinBut

OffRoad Box....yeah...YEAH......THAT'S IT!!! You nailed it! Heck, I would be willing to drive from now on with my rightside wheels on the shoulder if that is what it takes to qualify as being offroad! I promise.

qzilla

Not all 3 pulses are stretched. The pilot injection event goes away at given circumstances, and I am not sure how much fuel is actually used on the 3rd event when you are not putting around.

In order to remove the 3rd injection event would be very expensive and would take some risk on the consumer part. If the electronics fail it would completely disable the injector. This could also happen with a bad connection, installation, or a bad part on the computer controlling them.

I am just not sure it is really worth it?


Quad

sled4fun

just a thought I have read that driving with the boost gauge and keeping the boost below say 6psi gives you max mileage. I assume that less fuel is given to the engine because the ECU is sensing low boost an according to it's fuel map...less fuel. What about an exhaust cutout/diverter that when switched bypasses the turbo so you basically have a non turbo'ed engine for those cruising the highway no real power needed mode. The turbo would still spin powered by the intake suction vanes. With no boost seen while cruising would'nt the ECU compensate for better mileage. Of course at the expense of power, but I am talking about those no tow cruise miles.

At what point in the low boost range is the turbo hampering economy as compared to a non turbo'ed engine.

What would these engines get in MPG (no load cruise condition) if they had no turbo and still ran an intercooler?

TAS05CTD610

Well that's what I was currious too. I wouldn't want to remove it or really change a lot but like the others have said, an off road box. I wish I knew when the events turned off, and did this or that. These new trucks if you sneeze they give it .0007% more power to comensate for the sneeze

I was just thinking if you could do that to get better millate. I understand the cat needs to stay warm to burn fuel, but if you could move the pre shot (more engine noise = more millage I could live with) to the main, why not.

I guess my question is more if you guys can increase pressure, duration, timing, this and that, how come you can't adjust the pre,post events? Is there some different code that these go by? Other sensors that will fault? I would love to have a box that would not de tune, but make it so that you get more millage with less power (on flat land nobody needs 1000hp to just cruse). I like using the power when I tow or pull hills, but other than that, it's just easy going. (not really but you know)

Just thinking out loud. I wonder if you bought a 5.9L for a marine application, what kind of ECM is on that? Wonder if it would have the pre/post shot from cummins or what? I know that Dodge supplies the ECM's on the new engines, but back when Cummins Did? It has to be a dodge thing. Hmmmm

All you need to qualify for off road, is those stickers they sell on the 1500's I mean now it says off road on your truck

qzilla

Altering the event is not a problem. The point is that you don't/won't gain anything.

If you alter the pilot injection then the truck will get loud and rattle. That is the point of the pilot injection. There is not enough fuel being burned to make a difference either way.

The post injection event is sort of the same type deal and is meant strictly for emissions. There is not enough fuel distributed in these events to be noticed.

I am working on a module for fuel mileage only. It does not really net any big power, but we are getting 3-4 mpg increase at 70mph crusing speeds empty.

I am always interested in the things people want, because I feel if I can provide a product that is wanted then everyone is happy.

The problem with mileage increases is that the products typically add a considerable amount of power and people love feeling the gut wrenching torque these things produce. Even at 50-60 hp gain for the average guy it is a lot of power. When you use the power the mileage does not get much better.

It has always been too expensive to try and sell something that is mileage only without much power gains. You know with the way advertising is everyone claims 4 mpg increase and 100-150hp gains. How do you compete with that saying you can get 4mpg and 10hp gain? I guess you could lie and say 8mpg increase?

Now as far as something to alter all injection events, it would be possible, but more expensive and I think people would not like the results vs pricing.

I think everyone reads too much into the pre/post injection. It is very insignificant at this point. Maybe with more testing there is something to be found, but I have not found it yet.

N.Johnson

[QUOTE=sled4fun]just a thought I have read that driving with the boost gauge and keeping the boost below say 6psi gives you max mileage. I assume that less fuel is given to the engine because the ECU is sensing low boost an according to it's fuel map...less fuel. [QUOTE]

Do you have gauges on your rig. If not get some even if your stock fueling. It's really interesting to see how the ecu totally controls the fueling and how little the go peddle does. Example, I'm climbing a grade and watch the boost and exhaust gauge climb, yet I haven't pressed the peddle further? The ecu is reading the throttle position and fueling accordingly I guess. Now I'm coming down the grade, foot hasn't moved and the pyro/boost fall to their pegs and my engine is basically a huge air pump.

TAS05CTD610

That's what I was thinking Quad, was millage. how come some of these older gen dodges are in the 20's, and no lie my dad's stock 99 with exhaust and edge EZ will get 21-22 depending on winds. It's great. I can only get around 16-17 with about 75% high way 25% city. That's what I was currious. That's why I don't really care if you get rid of an event, but hey if you put it near the power area, would it help power?? Like you said most millage comes with a power increase due to the increased efficiency.

As far as keeping boost under 6psi, I don't see that unless I'm going down a hill. I live in the hilly area and I can tell you towing I don't see less that that. Even empty i'm at about 8-10.

Just thinking out loud, seeing what damage can happen. If I trusted the multi cylinder displacement (shutting cylinders down while not using the power ) like the hemis I would love it. I know some of the big rigs have it, but man, 50 million miles of wires, not to mention the wires are thin as hair, I just don't know about that. But it would be nice to not use the power when not needed. Man if cummins made something that was like that and got 25, they'd take all the chevy ford guys over

I normally do draft trucks however like you said quad, power hungary people use the power not the millate (nor do I like the stone chips) I have gotten 19mpg once, dead empty, and with just an exhaust (think i had a good tail wind) but I know you can. I'll give ya my opinion for sure Hey if somebody wants to buy something, I'd make it, kinda like how you do with your products and markating. Make something better, and cheeper, it's smart business.

sled4fun

I don't have gauges yet, but will if/when I do any mods other than the exhaust and airbox I will. Interesting read on how the ECU adjusts the fueling with a steady pedal.

Just thinking out loud again Has anyone tried looping the turbo's inlet and outlet together (basically taking it out of the picture and letting it run in a vaccum) and connecting the intercooler outlet directly to the intake manifold.
Would the turbo temps get too high running this way for a test run? Maybe not since I would think that the engine would not fuel too much as it is not sensing a boost condition.

What MPG would these engines get without a turbo?

qzilla

The first problem is that everyone wants 500hp AND 25mpg. It is not going to happen. 98-02 trucks made from 215hp to 245hp. That is 80-110hp less than todays trucks. SOme of those trucks will get great mileage, but on average they still get 17-19mpg. I know I own one.

Now we have trucks making 450-480 flywheel horsepower getting 16-17 mpg on average and we are whining?

I think steady 20mpg will be seen in the near future, but it will be at near stock horsepower levels. Sure a button can turn that up, but people will have to chill a little to get that sort of mileage. I won't be one of them, because I just cannot drive that way.

Now the hemi system sucks. A good friend has a 2006 hemi and it gets 13-14 mpg. IT sounds like hell when the cylinders shut down too and it is doggy. He hates it, and I cannot stand to ride in it. They act like they invented something cool when it was done years ago and it failed miserably, they are just re-naming this and bringing it back. I am pretty sure it was Cadillac that started it 10-15 years ago. I actually don't understand the thinking as you are using half the cylinders to turn the same exact rotating mass. It still takes X amount of RPM's to go X amount of MPH so the motor has to make a certain number of revolutions regardless of it hitting on 1 or 8 cylinders.

The only time this might make sense is if you idled a lot and you could use a minimum amount of fuel to turn the engine over while sitting stationary.

I could be wrong, but it does not work on the HEMI.

You could run these trucks without a turbo, but you would melt a piston. You would have to come up with a good source of air for the engine and use about half the fuel. No one has tried this purposely, but when you blow a turbo boot it gets ugly.

So with some tuning and fabrication you could run one without the turbo, but it would be in the 200hp range unless you wanted to melt it.

sled4fun

I really don't want 500hp (yet ) but I am willing to be first in line on a box to be able to flip a switch and detune to say 250hp and get 30MPG I'm sure you could whip one up this weekend....right! If I don't add the XZT soon I might hold out for your mileage box or a box that has the mileage setting on it with other settings for more HP.

dodgezilla04

i'll stick to the race box with my 19 mpg and drive the CRX when i want 30+ mpg. this is a 7k # truck, not a metro.

N.Johnson

sled4fun I hear you buddy but we are not going to get 25-30 mpg moving a 7000 pound truck that also has the worst aerodynamics possible. No chip in the world (at least this one) will overcome the reality of physical laws. Get a boost/pyro gauge and drive by them and you can maybe get to low 20's. I have achieved,for me the all time best of 23.7 going 60mph,cruise control, no traffic stopping, all highway fuel station to fuel station, fuel additive PS&MMO, on a run vancouver to seattle, on a windless 70 F warm day, unloaded on summer fuel. The worst was pulling a 8500# 28 foot travel trailer in Northern Cal of 13.8. Dang I love my 305/555 isb!!!!!

TAS05CTD610

I do have an ole mercury sable I run around in 23 mpg ain't bad and it's a peppy little thing (insurance at 280 a year ain't bad either)

I love my truck and will take the millage it gives me due to towing and the use of the truck. I don't run empty much unless it's on a really long run (down to VA or something) Then I like it cause I trust it more than her car (lots of miles)

Like I said just thinking out loud. I know there's one diesel, not sure if it's cat that has the DOD (displacement on Demand) that got near 10mpg empty, not bad figuring those things weigh around 30 thousand pounds (or more).

I know the more HP you make the more fuel your going to use, and like I said sometimes that helps, corvettes and mustangs and all that can get good millage if driven easy (who can drive one of those easy)

Just thinking out loud, guess it did damage