Help with air and programer
07-07-2006, 12:52 PM
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Help with air and programer
Well I just got my first diesel and want to do some mods but got lost in all the availible products out there.It's a 06 Quad SB Ho 48re and will be 1] Daily driver 100 mi a day, 2] toy hauler 10,000lb in the flats of Jersey and 3] Showin-off now and then.
I like the idea of the cold air volant but maybe a little restrictive. The K&N is less restrictive but may pull warm air from the motor.
Was thinking bully tripledog, Outlook[ cause I need gauges].
Q:do I want downloader or modual? pros and cons?
Help me out, tell me what you think and back it up with facts.
I'm open to other plans/brands but have a warranty limitations.
Thanks
I like the idea of the cold air volant but maybe a little restrictive. The K&N is less restrictive but may pull warm air from the motor.
Was thinking bully tripledog, Outlook[ cause I need gauges].
Q:do I want downloader or modual? pros and cons?
Help me out, tell me what you think and back it up with facts.
I'm open to other plans/brands but have a warranty limitations.
Thanks
07-07-2006, 01:45 PM
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Go with the Volant. Make sure you get their Primo filter (7 or 8 ply opposed to 5). I had a K&N on my 2nd gen with no issues but many report bad experiences from them. Scotty & AFE also are highly recommended.
07-07-2006, 02:52 PM
#3
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reliable mods
First off - you should mod the intake & exhaust so the engine can max breathe; if you install gauges first - then you can document the differences your mods make.
I think my super BHAF is the best solution for the intake side. I decided to stay away from oiled filters for warranty reasons, and didn't like the restrictive ducting of aftermarket "fresh air" systems (or the $$$ either!). Normally aspirated engines need about 1 square inch of intake duct for every 14 cubic inches of cylinder volume, which means a CTD would require a 6" diameter intake duct at maximum CFM requirement... since the stock Holset will easily deliver 30+ psi boost (2 atmospheres), you could reasonably expect to double the intake duct area to at least 8" diameter. That's just too big to package into a stock CTD engine bay, so I chose "natural flow ducting" to supply the filter media by using the high pressure passenger-side grill air (rubber deflector MIA) and cowl plenum air (ported to engine), since high-pressure (outside) air will always flow to low-pressure (turbo inlet) air.
Next I designed the shortest possible distance between the filter media face and turbo inlet for max flow & whistle, fabbed a SS plenum to fit and even incorporated the stock IAT & filter-minder. Just to "make sure", I used filter media large enough in cross section to supply enough Cummins-spec flow & filtration for 650 HP + 1220 ft-lb torque.
With the exhaust mods I made, the super BHAF is so efficient that I believe it causes the engine to run on the edge of the stock fuel map, and of course it barks a lot shifting the 6-speed.
Check out my pics!
I think my super BHAF is the best solution for the intake side. I decided to stay away from oiled filters for warranty reasons, and didn't like the restrictive ducting of aftermarket "fresh air" systems (or the $$$ either!). Normally aspirated engines need about 1 square inch of intake duct for every 14 cubic inches of cylinder volume, which means a CTD would require a 6" diameter intake duct at maximum CFM requirement... since the stock Holset will easily deliver 30+ psi boost (2 atmospheres), you could reasonably expect to double the intake duct area to at least 8" diameter. That's just too big to package into a stock CTD engine bay, so I chose "natural flow ducting" to supply the filter media by using the high pressure passenger-side grill air (rubber deflector MIA) and cowl plenum air (ported to engine), since high-pressure (outside) air will always flow to low-pressure (turbo inlet) air.
Next I designed the shortest possible distance between the filter media face and turbo inlet for max flow & whistle, fabbed a SS plenum to fit and even incorporated the stock IAT & filter-minder. Just to "make sure", I used filter media large enough in cross section to supply enough Cummins-spec flow & filtration for 650 HP + 1220 ft-lb torque.
With the exhaust mods I made, the super BHAF is so efficient that I believe it causes the engine to run on the edge of the stock fuel map, and of course it barks a lot shifting the 6-speed.
Check out my pics!
07-07-2006, 02:56 PM
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be prepared to be your own warranty station with ANY programmer or module...unless you have a GREAT dealer.
I run AFE stage II with the Pro-Guard 7 Filter....and love it. Between the 2 you named, go Volant. There are reports of bad things with K&N.
the module/programmer issue...its your call. Theoretically....a programmer messes up and your truck has no program and you have a dead truck. A module messes up....throws codes and what not...usually you can take it off and be OK. programmers aren't always that easy to fix. there are reports of ppl having to have it towed to the dealer and have the dealer reprogram it completely.
most of all, HAVE FUN and welcome to the dark side! (black smoke and soot being the dark part)
I run AFE stage II with the Pro-Guard 7 Filter....and love it. Between the 2 you named, go Volant. There are reports of bad things with K&N.
the module/programmer issue...its your call. Theoretically....a programmer messes up and your truck has no program and you have a dead truck. A module messes up....throws codes and what not...usually you can take it off and be OK. programmers aren't always that easy to fix. there are reports of ppl having to have it towed to the dealer and have the dealer reprogram it completely.
most of all, HAVE FUN and welcome to the dark side! (black smoke and soot being the dark part)
07-07-2006, 03:10 PM
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About the programmer/tuner....
The first thing you have to do is drill and tap a 3/8 hole in your exhaust manifold just above the turbo for a thermocuple to read EGT's. This is a must with any module that can read EGT's and defuel automatically to keep them down. Now comparing two popular units BullyDog triple and the Edge juice w/attitude monitor.
I would strongly recommend the Edge system for what you said you wanted to use the rig for. If you are into pulling/drag racing and you need every last pony you can get (and you have the proper TC and tranny upgrades) then go for the bully dog. If you want to use it for multipurpose street use, the Edge hands down. One small difference between the two is how they auto-defuel when they reach the owner preset de-fueling temp. With the bully dog you have to set a percentage of de-fueling when the EGT's reach the desired max level. In this case you have to set it for worst case scenario so you would set the bully to de-fuel at a higher percentage. With the edge system it auto de-fuels 1% point at a time to keep the EGT's down below your preset temp limit. So lets say you leave it set at the preset temp of 1250 deg. When the EGT's get to that level the Edge tells the truck to defuel in 1% increments until the temp goes down. It may only have to defuel 5% to achieve this. It may have to defuel 25% depending on conditions. With the bullydog, when you reach the limit of 1250 deg it would instantly defuel at what you set it on for worst case conditions, maybe 25% or more.
Another difference is that the Edge does not "re-flash" your computer. It simply communicates with it. So you can pull out your Edge and it is like it was never in there. I've also heard better gas mileage reports with the edge system. The edge system seems to be the answer for the daily driver that wants to show off every now and then. The Edge system comes with all the parts needed including the thermocuple.
So....multiuse daily driver.........Edge
Drag racing/pulling competion.....Bully Dog.
Just my opinion...
Nick
The first thing you have to do is drill and tap a 3/8 hole in your exhaust manifold just above the turbo for a thermocuple to read EGT's. This is a must with any module that can read EGT's and defuel automatically to keep them down. Now comparing two popular units BullyDog triple and the Edge juice w/attitude monitor.
I would strongly recommend the Edge system for what you said you wanted to use the rig for. If you are into pulling/drag racing and you need every last pony you can get (and you have the proper TC and tranny upgrades) then go for the bully dog. If you want to use it for multipurpose street use, the Edge hands down. One small difference between the two is how they auto-defuel when they reach the owner preset de-fueling temp. With the bully dog you have to set a percentage of de-fueling when the EGT's reach the desired max level. In this case you have to set it for worst case scenario so you would set the bully to de-fuel at a higher percentage. With the edge system it auto de-fuels 1% point at a time to keep the EGT's down below your preset temp limit. So lets say you leave it set at the preset temp of 1250 deg. When the EGT's get to that level the Edge tells the truck to defuel in 1% increments until the temp goes down. It may only have to defuel 5% to achieve this. It may have to defuel 25% depending on conditions. With the bullydog, when you reach the limit of 1250 deg it would instantly defuel at what you set it on for worst case conditions, maybe 25% or more.
Another difference is that the Edge does not "re-flash" your computer. It simply communicates with it. So you can pull out your Edge and it is like it was never in there. I've also heard better gas mileage reports with the edge system. The edge system seems to be the answer for the daily driver that wants to show off every now and then. The Edge system comes with all the parts needed including the thermocuple.
So....multiuse daily driver.........Edge
Drag racing/pulling competion.....Bully Dog.
Just my opinion...
Nick
07-07-2006, 03:22 PM
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fueling box
IMHO - I think Quad has the best non-sledpulling box on the market: his research is well-founded, his approach is sensible (in an engineering sense) and his customer service is beyond reproach... besides, he's in TEXAS, and everybody knows we've got the best of everything! 
"God Blessed Texas"
"God Blessed Texas"
07-07-2006, 04:53 PM
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No problems with dealer, he says they can ignoor anything that dosn't leave a footprint. Airbox and intake mods are ok but no exaust mods. Truck came with the 4" and I guess I'll have to live with it for a while.
Deesil, great info on the defueling, Thanks
Is there anything that lowers trany shift points ? They seem kinda long for a motor with this much bottom end. Maybe some fuel savings to be had there? I do about 40% city 60% highway driving.
Deesil, great info on the defueling, Thanks
Is there anything that lowers trany shift points ? They seem kinda long for a motor with this much bottom end. Maybe some fuel savings to be had there? I do about 40% city 60% highway driving.
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07-07-2006, 05:02 PM
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my dealer told me just the opposite.....i can take the muffler off and be ok under warrenty (except exhaust itself)...but if I add an intake, that could cause many questions when i have warrenty work.
07-07-2006, 05:22 PM
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As you can see, it will vary from one dealer to the next. The truth is that they can't void warranty work for any mod unless they can prove it was the mod that caused the problem/damage. BUT if they refuse to honor it, you'd have to sue them to make them honor it, not a good alternative. Just be warned. Just about any performance mod can cause an overly **** dealer to send you packing. Maybe try another dealer and see what they say if you run into that. 
07-07-2006, 07:24 PM
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yeah....the dealer cannot void your warranty for mods like programmers and intake exhaust unless the mod causes the failure....some dealers are just a PITA..others are more mod friendly...
07-08-2006, 11:05 AM
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well about the Quad...i'm from Texas and Very, Very proud of it. and I do not like Quadzilla products....a close buddy of mine tried one and had all kinds of surging issues/ codes thrown, etc. he tried to take it back but no one wanted to talk to him. he eventually raised enough heck that he got his money back.....he now has the Edge Juice/Attitude and LOVES it.
I also support the Edge for everyday application...i just got rid of mine wanting more power....cause i drag race. The Edge won't leave as big of a footprint as the Bullydog will.
I also support the Edge for everyday application...i just got rid of mine wanting more power....cause i drag race. The Edge won't leave as big of a footprint as the Bullydog will.
07-08-2006, 12:16 PM
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Hey Quad
Originally Posted by 973604x4
well about the Quad...i'm from Texas and Very, Very proud of it. and I do not like Quadzilla products....a close buddy of mine tried one and had all kinds of surging issues/ codes thrown, etc. he tried to take it back but no one wanted to talk to him. he eventually raised enough heck that he got his money back.....
07-08-2006, 01:16 PM
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I have read nothing but great stuff about Quad....but my buddy's experience was not satisfactory.
I went to the shop where he bought the module....the guy at the shop was a little on the wacko side...the shop owner's 05 cummins was on his second motor...his dad blew the first one racing at over 100mph pulling 10,000 pounds!
Ok so that was atleast out-of-the-ordinary....the guy suggested Quad to me. He said it wasn't dealer detectable and all of this other Great info. hmmm...
Told my buddy of these claims...so he went to try it out. Bought the module, installed it, had fun for one day until it was throwing codes, sputtering, surging, etc. took the module off and attempted a drive to the dodge dealer...barely made it because the truck was messing up so badly. Something electronic had been messed up was the cause of all of this.
He took the module back to the shop, the guy wouldn't talk to him. He raised enough heck until he got a swap for an Edge Juice/Attitude. (my buddy is a marine, i wouldn't want to tick him off)
Granted, it WAS NOT Quad themselves who was dealing with my buddy. One of their dealers that is representing their company is what put a sour taste in our mouths.
The truck messed up so bad within 48 hours that is was basically undriveable is what concerned us most. IF my marine buddy would have called Quad, he probably would have been treated differently....but he went back to a Quad dealer who wouldn't talk to him.....but eventually swapped a Juice/Attitude for the Quad....no one ever offered to have Quad update it, replace it, nothing.
I'm not bashing Quad, just sharing an experience i witnessed.
Texas may have the biggest and best of everything....but maybe not in diesel technology. I know in atleast my part of texas we are a few years behind in technology
I went to the shop where he bought the module....the guy at the shop was a little on the wacko side...the shop owner's 05 cummins was on his second motor...his dad blew the first one racing at over 100mph pulling 10,000 pounds!
Ok so that was atleast out-of-the-ordinary....the guy suggested Quad to me. He said it wasn't dealer detectable and all of this other Great info. hmmm...
Told my buddy of these claims...so he went to try it out. Bought the module, installed it, had fun for one day until it was throwing codes, sputtering, surging, etc. took the module off and attempted a drive to the dodge dealer...barely made it because the truck was messing up so badly. Something electronic had been messed up was the cause of all of this.
He took the module back to the shop, the guy wouldn't talk to him. He raised enough heck until he got a swap for an Edge Juice/Attitude. (my buddy is a marine, i wouldn't want to tick him off)
Granted, it WAS NOT Quad themselves who was dealing with my buddy. One of their dealers that is representing their company is what put a sour taste in our mouths.
The truck messed up so bad within 48 hours that is was basically undriveable is what concerned us most. IF my marine buddy would have called Quad, he probably would have been treated differently....but he went back to a Quad dealer who wouldn't talk to him.....but eventually swapped a Juice/Attitude for the Quad....no one ever offered to have Quad update it, replace it, nothing.
I'm not bashing Quad, just sharing an experience i witnessed.
Texas may have the biggest and best of everything....but maybe not in diesel technology. I know in atleast my part of texas we are a few years behind in technology
07-08-2006, 01:38 PM
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Well, that explains it!
You never know what you're gonna get when dealing with a lot of these "4 X 4" "shops" (I'm being polite here!), so I'm not surprised to hear of yet another train wreck on somebody's truck after trying to mod... bottom line, go to a place you know & trust - whether it's personal experience or reputation. Maybe we could get your buddy (no greater friend, no worse enemy) to tell us the name of the place so everyone can avoid it like the plague - I detest poor customer service like that - gives service techs/modders like me a bad name!
Lucky for me I'm not too far from Quad, so I can deal with 'em in person.
Shake yer buddy's hand for me - the uniform makes him a hero.
You never know what you're gonna get when dealing with a lot of these "4 X 4" "shops" (I'm being polite here!), so I'm not surprised to hear of yet another train wreck on somebody's truck after trying to mod... bottom line, go to a place you know & trust - whether it's personal experience or reputation. Maybe we could get your buddy (no greater friend, no worse enemy) to tell us the name of the place so everyone can avoid it like the plague - I detest poor customer service like that - gives service techs/modders like me a bad name!
Lucky for me I'm not too far from Quad, so I can deal with 'em in person.
Shake yer buddy's hand for me - the uniform makes him a hero.