F1 Valve Springs
10-18-2008, 11:41 AM
#31
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've yet have issue with my F1's either. Like many though I'm disappointed I spent quadruple what they go for now but, that's how things go I suppose. No use whining over spent cash now... it just makes you think about how it gets spent in the future.
It would be nice though to see why there's such difference in pricing and why one company claims to be better than the other.
Metal prices haven't gone down... that much anyway. I would think with the way metals have gone in worth... the springs would be more expensive.
It would be nice though to see why there's such difference in pricing and why one company claims to be better than the other.
Metal prices haven't gone down... that much anyway. I would think with the way metals have gone in worth... the springs would be more expensive.
10-18-2008, 12:34 PM
#32
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Fresno, Ca
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's always hard to think we paid too much for a product, but I look at it like this:
I was happy with the price at the time I paid for it, and that is really all that matters.
I was happy with the price at the time I paid for it, and that is really all that matters.
10-18-2008, 12:38 PM
#33
DTR Advertiser
650 - 299 is NOT quadruple the price.
Just over double and the 650 price was not on sale.
Also, like I have said several times now, we have been able to get our manufacturing price down.
Just over double and the 650 price was not on sale.
Also, like I have said several times now, we have been able to get our manufacturing price down.
10-18-2008, 12:43 PM
#34
Doesn't that make you feel all warm and fuzzy that the guy that you help pay his bills and yours as well will cut your throat because of his ego and leave his dealers with shelves full... Nice...
I think I'll run the springs that Barber, Mills, and Rip are running... Who can disagree that the F1's aren't proven?
I think I'll run the springs that Barber, Mills, and Rip are running... Who can disagree that the F1's aren't proven?
X's 2 on all that. I own my own business and the fact that hamilton cut all his dealers throats is poor business in my opinion. Yeah the consumer wins and thats the ultimate goal, but what are the guys that have the springs in stock suposed to do now? I know for a fact they paid more than 199 for the springs that they now will have to lose money on or not sell. Its nothing personal but I that just isnt right.
10-18-2008, 12:47 PM
#35
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't seem to find where I may have mentioned F1. Anywhere!
10-18-2008, 12:48 PM
#36
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was thinking they were $199... guess that's the other guy. Still not quadruple but, quite the difference. In this day of everything going up... it's surprising you're able to get manufacturing down.... especially in the USA.
btw Don... thanks for getting back to me
10-18-2008, 01:34 PM
#37
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Georgia... Iowa Bound
Posts: 988
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont know what I have done to you, but I looked back at your posts over the last few months. It is clear you have an axe to grind. Here is a quick sample of what you have to say every time a cam, injector, or spring thread comes up that has to do with F1:
1) Yep, Zach and Don are really going at it. And after reading some of those test Im glad I went with Hamilton's spring
Hamilton and he's having a killer sale right now
2) Hamilton and he's having a killer sale right now
Yea, nothing against Don's cams, but Id go w/...
3) Yea, nothing against Don's cams, but Id go w/ someone who will make you a custom cam like Wicked or Hamilton
You dont send them to F1 personally you send to a...
4) You dont send them to F1 personally you send to a dealer (Mid-Atlantic or TRE, both site sponsers) and they send them to to F1 then reverse the other. IMO opinon a pain in the butt, but I hear there great injectors.
5) Personally I didnt want to wait so I went w/ Extrude Honed. You send them your nozzles they make them bigger and in a days turn around to, and then reinstall them. O and it cost less than 3/4 of what f1 is.
6) I was actually thinking more of the cam thread over there that opened my eyes, but this is a good one also.
http://www.competitiondiesel.com/for...=hamiltons+don
happy reading
7) O god, you might of just opened up a can worms. And if you havent read the debate on CompD, go for it, it might change your prospective on things.
8) Yep Hamilton's are as good as they get, you'll probably find the % of dodge owners (besides 12v guys) run Hamiltons
9) Or you could get your own injectors honed out by Extrude Honed for half the price, and they are quite nice?
I look at cam manufactures that will make you a...
10) I look at cam manufactures that will make you a custom cam (Wicked, Max Spool, Diesel Pro, Hamilton), not a off the shelf cam (F1).
11) I would contact either Wicked or someone would does custom grinds, IMO buying a cam w/ a set grind is kinda of retarded when you can get a cam built
Heck, even in thread alone you cant stop the constant hacking at us Hintz.
1) Yep, Zach and Don are really going at it. And after reading some of those test Im glad I went with Hamilton's spring
Hamilton and he's having a killer sale right now
2) Hamilton and he's having a killer sale right now
Yea, nothing against Don's cams, but Id go w/...
3) Yea, nothing against Don's cams, but Id go w/ someone who will make you a custom cam like Wicked or Hamilton
You dont send them to F1 personally you send to a...
4) You dont send them to F1 personally you send to a dealer (Mid-Atlantic or TRE, both site sponsers) and they send them to to F1 then reverse the other. IMO opinon a pain in the butt, but I hear there great injectors.
5) Personally I didnt want to wait so I went w/ Extrude Honed. You send them your nozzles they make them bigger and in a days turn around to, and then reinstall them. O and it cost less than 3/4 of what f1 is.
6) I was actually thinking more of the cam thread over there that opened my eyes, but this is a good one also.
http://www.competitiondiesel.com/for...=hamiltons+don
happy reading
7) O god, you might of just opened up a can worms. And if you havent read the debate on CompD, go for it, it might change your prospective on things.
8) Yep Hamilton's are as good as they get, you'll probably find the % of dodge owners (besides 12v guys) run Hamiltons
9) Or you could get your own injectors honed out by Extrude Honed for half the price, and they are quite nice?
I look at cam manufactures that will make you a...
10) I look at cam manufactures that will make you a custom cam (Wicked, Max Spool, Diesel Pro, Hamilton), not a off the shelf cam (F1).
11) I would contact either Wicked or someone would does custom grinds, IMO buying a cam w/ a set grind is kinda of retarded when you can get a cam built
Heck, even in thread alone you cant stop the constant hacking at us Hintz.
Did I touch a nerve, Im sorry Hamilton has stepped up and made you redisign your springs and lower your pricesYou can see w/ the injectors I was giving you props, as I know your injectors are top notch
As for your cams and the CompD link, you went on there and wouldnt give any information, you just made people look like idiots for asking basic questions, not everybody understands cams and how they work or the hardnest (strength) of them. And coming from the gasser world Im not a fan of off the shelve cam where you cant get the grind which works for YOUR truck. Everyone has different mods so different durations and lift is need for specific trucks.
And your springs I had them and Zach had that trade in program, so I figured I would try his out just b/c yours had around 15k on them and I wanted to see what they test out like and for 60 bucks I got new springs and a shirt I figure it was worth it and what do you know they had lost 10 lbs of seat pressure. Which I wasnt happy with, so thats why Im pushing Zach's springs and not yours.
Also, its nice if you have a problem w/ a product you can pick up the phone and get a hold of them, unlike going through the middle man
10-18-2008, 03:07 PM
#38
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Central NC
Posts: 1,520
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I want the lowest price I can get, but that just stinks for the vendors who supported him.
10-18-2008, 03:16 PM
#39
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: So Cal
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of course it does stink paying more for something than someone else paid.
A couple points:
1. If you want to be the first to have the new toy, your going to pay more. Look at people who have to have the first model year of a new car. Some pay over MSRP, while the guy that purchases the 2nd year not only get the $2000.00 rebate he buys it at $500.00 over dealer cost.
2. If any of you have ever brought a product to market, you have to remember your initial pricing must include not only your costs for the product, but a host of other inherent costs, (R&D, advertising, etc.) plus...... you and your dealers profit margins.
Now not knowing how many, or, if any of your items you are going to sell, you must try to recoup as much of your initial costs as soon as possible.
SO...... you price your product to sell at the highest price the market will bear.
Now, if it works out and you sell all of your product and have orders for more you can now make / purchase more product, except this time you make 10,000 instead of 1,000.
Guess what ?
Your manufacturing costs go down for the higher volume of product / material you use / make. Now you can lower your price to the end user while still maintaining you and your dealers profit margins.
It's pretty simple. Yes it sucks you paid more, but you had the new cool stuff first.
David
A couple points:
1. If you want to be the first to have the new toy, your going to pay more. Look at people who have to have the first model year of a new car. Some pay over MSRP, while the guy that purchases the 2nd year not only get the $2000.00 rebate he buys it at $500.00 over dealer cost.
2. If any of you have ever brought a product to market, you have to remember your initial pricing must include not only your costs for the product, but a host of other inherent costs, (R&D, advertising, etc.) plus...... you and your dealers profit margins.
Now not knowing how many, or, if any of your items you are going to sell, you must try to recoup as much of your initial costs as soon as possible.
SO...... you price your product to sell at the highest price the market will bear.
Now, if it works out and you sell all of your product and have orders for more you can now make / purchase more product, except this time you make 10,000 instead of 1,000.
Guess what ?
Your manufacturing costs go down for the higher volume of product / material you use / make. Now you can lower your price to the end user while still maintaining you and your dealers profit margins.
It's pretty simple. Yes it sucks you paid more, but you had the new cool stuff first.
David
10-18-2008, 03:34 PM
#41
DTR Advertiser
Hang on a second there Hintz. I need to correct something:
Our spring cost to us has dropped through design changes, logistics, and quantity. So we dropped the cost to everyone else. The other companies have had the same raw cost from day one. Do the math and see who is poking who.
Also, the guys who bought the 650 dollar springs have a different part that had a nightmarish cost to us. Since April or so we began getting the springs made differently to allow a huge drop in our raw costing. The quantity went up, the quality went up, the cost went down, and we passed it on.
All of dealers were "bought in" at a specific price to allow them to make a very modest mark up for support and sales. When we decided to run a spring sale price, I personally contacted them all -in advance- to make them whole with refunds VS the difference in price for all the springs they had in stock.
Our spring cost to us has dropped through design changes, logistics, and quantity. So we dropped the cost to everyone else. The other companies have had the same raw cost from day one. Do the math and see who is poking who.
Also, the guys who bought the 650 dollar springs have a different part that had a nightmarish cost to us. Since April or so we began getting the springs made differently to allow a huge drop in our raw costing. The quantity went up, the quality went up, the cost went down, and we passed it on.
All of dealers were "bought in" at a specific price to allow them to make a very modest mark up for support and sales. When we decided to run a spring sale price, I personally contacted them all -in advance- to make them whole with refunds VS the difference in price for all the springs they had in stock.
10-18-2008, 03:46 PM
#42
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Georgia... Iowa Bound
Posts: 988
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hang on a second there Hintz. I need to correct something:
Our spring cost to us has dropped through design changes, logistics, and quantity. So we dropped the cost to everyone else. The other companies have had the same raw cost from day one. Do the math and see who is poking who.
Also, the guys who bought the 650 dollar springs have a different part that had a nightmarish cost to us. Since April or so we began getting the springs made differently to allow a huge drop in our raw costing. The quantity went up, the quality went up, the cost went down, and we passed it on.
All of dealers were "bought in" at a specific price to allow them to make a very modest mark up for support and sales. When we decided to run a spring sale price, I personally contacted them all -in advance- to make them whole with refunds VS the difference in price for all the springs they had in stock.
Our spring cost to us has dropped through design changes, logistics, and quantity. So we dropped the cost to everyone else. The other companies have had the same raw cost from day one. Do the math and see who is poking who.
Also, the guys who bought the 650 dollar springs have a different part that had a nightmarish cost to us. Since April or so we began getting the springs made differently to allow a huge drop in our raw costing. The quantity went up, the quality went up, the cost went down, and we passed it on.
All of dealers were "bought in" at a specific price to allow them to make a very modest mark up for support and sales. When we decided to run a spring sale price, I personally contacted them all -in advance- to make them whole with refunds VS the difference in price for all the springs they had in stock.
10-18-2008, 03:47 PM
#43
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Central NC
Posts: 1,520
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think that's how business should be done. Sounds more than fair.
10-18-2008, 04:37 PM
#44
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: So Cal
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Breaking In a Spring
1. It is important for new springs to take a heat-set. Never abuse or run
the engine at high rpm when the springs are new. Upon initial start-up,
limit rpm to 1500 to 2000 until the temperature has reached operating
levels. Shut off the engine and allow the springs to cool to room temperature.
This usually will eliminate early breakage and prolong spring life.
After the spring has been “broken-in”, it is common for it to lose a slight
amount of pressure. Once this initial pressure loss occurs, the spring
pressure should remain constant unless the engine is abused and the
spring becomes overstressed. Then the springs must either be replaced
or shimmed to the correct pressure.
Per Comp Cams
1. It is important for new springs to take a heat-set. Never abuse or run
the engine at high rpm when the springs are new. Upon initial start-up,
limit rpm to 1500 to 2000 until the temperature has reached operating
levels. Shut off the engine and allow the springs to cool to room temperature.
This usually will eliminate early breakage and prolong spring life.
After the spring has been “broken-in”, it is common for it to lose a slight
amount of pressure. Once this initial pressure loss occurs, the spring
pressure should remain constant unless the engine is abused and the
spring becomes overstressed. Then the springs must either be replaced
or shimmed to the correct pressure.
Per Comp Cams
10-18-2008, 05:04 PM
#45
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Brenham, Texas
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok my question tho is where do I go about ordering these springs for either F1 or Hamilton. Hamiltons site is down cause of high bandwidth and any of F1's distributors arent showing the 299 price or hamiltons distributors for that matter.