Dyno results prove intake fan works.
06-11-2007, 06:57 PM
#16
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That's how I looked at it. Very good information
That fan is good for 1400cfm at ATM. pressure. When the fan is overtaken by the suction of the turbo it will just continue to spin and the spaces between the fan blades far exceed the diameter of the intake pipe. Once the fan is providing so positive force it will be drawing 0 amps and will not be generating electricity so it will have no impact on the intake other than to potentially swirl the intake air in the wrong direction causing some momentary turbulence. Any excess air not required by the engine will just cause static load on the fan...causing it to work harder and at worst put air backwards through the filter. This is not a set of twins ....It is just a little help which would be most noticeable around town where our trucks suck fuel the hardest. If the fan was tighter to its housing it would have more thrust potenial. If it could deliver up to ATM + 4psi....it would be an awesome little addition for most folks.....then it would draw....a little more than 3 amps...40 watts ..... 1/20hp. ks
06-12-2007, 08:02 PM
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It's hard to imagine that that fan can produce 42 HP and 96 ft Lbs of torque. It takes more than air to make power. That kind of a power increase would take a boost increase of about 6 PSI or so and more fuel. Is that fan adding 6 PSI? No it's not. Where is the extra fuel comming from? With the fan off was the engine smoking heavily? There's more going on here than just a fan.
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06-12-2007, 09:03 PM
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Having looked at the dyno graphs....it is hard to tell the benefit. Obviously the maximum is down with the fan on... at 2500rpm its identical...at 1700 rpm it is better but there is such variation between the fan runs that some are better and some are way worse. To get a clear improvement I think the fan needs to be something that draws 40amps minimum, has a tightly shrouded surround and has a switch that turns it off at 2400rpm so that it is just freespooling.
It is proven that the most efficient air supply system for a diesel engine is a low rpm high volume supercharger and a high rpm high pressure turbocharger. The 2008 VW's have this system all electronically controlled. Many of the land speed record attemps use this system.
If I had a little more time I'd put a set up together. Anyone got a spare supercharger sitting around? ks
It is proven that the most efficient air supply system for a diesel engine is a low rpm high volume supercharger and a high rpm high pressure turbocharger. The 2008 VW's have this system all electronically controlled. Many of the land speed record attemps use this system.
If I had a little more time I'd put a set up together. Anyone got a spare supercharger sitting around? ks
06-13-2007, 08:15 AM
#20
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Like I've stated before this isn't for raceing with, it's for the average driver. In town particularly it will help the most for stop and go. If you don't have to use fuel to get the turbo to suck air through the filter it's going to improve mpg. Most people don't drive around above 2000rpms.
06-13-2007, 10:11 PM
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First they want dyno results and then they don't matter. What does matter? The consistancy of the fan dyno runs other than the one starting above 1700rpms, and even then it matched the others when they intersected almost perfectly.
The runs without the fan were all lower at the starting point at 1700 and was actually still just a little lower at 2100rpms on the best run. The max was only a few hp more as well as the tq, and that was on only one run. The other runs weren't higher that the dyno's with the fan. The consistancy of the fan dyno sheet would make me think I would have more power with the fan than without it.
The runs without the fan were all lower at the starting point at 1700 and was actually still just a little lower at 2100rpms on the best run. The max was only a few hp more as well as the tq, and that was on only one run. The other runs weren't higher that the dyno's with the fan. The consistancy of the fan dyno sheet would make me think I would have more power with the fan than without it.
06-15-2007, 09:57 PM
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i said like 3 years ago to set up a nozzle to inject some compressed air to help early spool up....should be easy to set up and regulate. the fan is going to slow the air we went over that along time ago also. just an idea that i am not going to try 1st 
06-16-2007, 02:21 AM
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As stated above.
That fan is good for 1400cfm at ATM. pressure. When the fan is overtaken by the suction of the turbo it will just continue to spin and the spaces between the fan blades far exceed the diameter of the intake pipe. Once the fan is providing so positive force it will be drawing 0 amps and will not be generating electricity so it will have no impact on the intake other than to potentially swirl the intake air in the wrong direction causing some momentary turbulence. Any excess air not required by the engine will just cause static load on the fan...causing it to work harder and at worst put air backwards through the filter. This is not a set of twins ....It is just a little help which would be most noticeable around town where our trucks suck fuel the hardest. If the fan was tighter to its housing it would have more thrust potenial. If it could deliver up to ATM + 4psi....it would be an awesome little addition for most folks.....then it would draw....a little more than 3 amps...40 watts ..... 1/20hp. ks
06-16-2007, 07:56 AM
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Fan
Here's where I found my fan. I looked all over for a better one and haven't found one yet. www.partzfinder.com
Last edited by Tree DR; 06-16-2007 at 07:58 AM. Reason: miss spelled web location
06-16-2007, 12:40 PM
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TREE, koodos to u for being creative and trying new ideas. improvements r never made on ANYTHING without people like u. remember, people mock what they dont understand. late
06-16-2007, 01:10 PM
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i understand how it works. my point is a little fan make will make a d/f. what about adding a compressed air set up to move volume instantly. doesnt that make more sense than a little fan. if that little fan add hp imagine what some compressed air set up the right way would do. it would inject in an instant and would blow some monster air!
add a compressor for airing up tires running air tools and low end boost when you want to play or help you meet emmisions.
i like your yankee engineering
add a compressor for airing up tires running air tools and low end boost when you want to play or help you meet emmisions.
i like your yankee engineering
06-16-2007, 02:24 PM
#29
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I applaud TreeDR for his innovation and effort... but could we please not dismiss the application of the laws of physics as an attack or dimunition on his project?
The intake fan really can't hurt the efficiency/performance of the CTD, because it's simply not able to help it very much either.
A positive-displacement fan is what's needed.
There are so many variables with dyno runs, so it sure helps to stay grounded with combustion-engineering facts.
Remember that basic laws of energy conservation dictate that a 1/20 HP "forced induction"? device isn't capable of producing 42 HP.
Many of us are glad for Tree's efforts with this and the hydrogen thing, yet we still need to be able to recognize when a device is just a Tornado (how many of you think THAT lives up to it's claims?
)
Of course, I'm not suggesting the intake fan is a tornado, since this project is a work in progress...
The intake fan really can't hurt the efficiency/performance of the CTD, because it's simply not able to help it very much either.
A positive-displacement fan is what's needed.
There are so many variables with dyno runs, so it sure helps to stay grounded with combustion-engineering facts.
Remember that basic laws of energy conservation dictate that a 1/20 HP "forced induction"? device isn't capable of producing 42 HP.
Many of us are glad for Tree's efforts with this and the hydrogen thing, yet we still need to be able to recognize when a device is just a Tornado (how many of you think THAT lives up to it's claims?
)Of course, I'm not suggesting the intake fan is a tornado, since this project is a work in progress...
06-16-2007, 09:17 PM
#30
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Laws of your physics. Obviously the laws of dyno physics don't apply. When I first started the "Intake fan for power and performance" thread they all said it will be more of a restriction than a plus. Get dyno results. Now the physics of dyno's don't work or the obvious facts about intakes only flowing 450cfm and a 1400cfm fan pulling air through the filter isn't going to restrict air flow. When does reality and physics meet?