duramax trash talk
11-21-2007 | 04:47 PM
#31
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 625
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From: Placerville, CA
Do you have a line lock? if not how do you launch?
My truck in sig dynoed at 430hp and had the same trap speed at you but 1 second slower ET. Weird....Did you mess up somewhere or was it the slow shifts de to the 3850 DD. My 0-1/8th mile sux'd but from 1/8-1/4 it was gone.
Did you 3850 DD result in lower ET's and do you think it will lower my ET.
Any d-max would kill me in a race unless its on the freeway, Only there can we true power vs true power, no shifting and loos of boost BS, just all out!!!!
I had stock tires for the race.
14.7 @98mph
11-21-2007 | 05:16 PM
#32
Banned
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,470
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From: Auburn Ohio
I had stock tires as well and I use the 3 pedal launch approach. I could not leave a over 20psi because of excessive wheel spin. What was your 60 foot time? Actually my best time was leaving in 2nd not 3rd. I have not quit gotten it with 3rd. The 3 pedal approach is hard to make consitant, but you can build big boost, then its hard to get the tires to stick. I have had a trap speed of 102mph but a slower et. Its all on your launch consistant gear shifts.
11-21-2007 | 06:37 PM
#33
Banned
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 452
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From: CT
not to sound like an &*# but my buddy ran that (crew cab short bed) with a 60 dollar Transgo Jr. kit, 80 dollar tie rod sleeves and a quick and dirty efilive tune that I wrote him...
Justin- great posts...I was hoping you would respond to this thread...
I like it when people respond to threads with a detailed and well thought-out response/argument, not just a "well my truck has a bigger set of 'truck nutz' bolted into the receiver than yours does" Im just so sick of seeing the generic "well humph, hook up 20 billion pounds and then see who gets to the top of the hill first" excuse WITHOUT being backed up by intelligent reasoning. If one truck is faster (be it a ctd, dmax, psd, whatever), so be it. X truck proved itself to be fast(er) in the real world, at a track, dyno, hill, and thats final...I dont understand why some people just cant accept/acknowledge something that they dont want to beleive. Not that this makes any difference, but I was the first person to congradulate and go wide eyed with excitement when I saw that CR ctd make 1200hp or whatever it was. It was posted on a dmax forum so I could have just as easilly gotten away with saying "well humph, lets see it actually run at the track or do it with fuel only", but I didnt.
Im too tired right now to write a big response but even If I did you'd always top it...this could be discussed until everyone goes insane, but the fact of the matter is IMHO every truck is different and until these two said trucks actually race, we cant say for certain "who will make it to the top first"
Ben
11-21-2007 | 07:24 PM
#34
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 168
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From: Henry Co., KY
Y'all can talk about which one will pull a load up a hill faster all day. I don't care if you can base your hypothesis on mathematics because you probably missed some other variable that even Einstien would have missed. The only way to prove which one will win is to actually hook up the two trucks and haul the same load.
11-21-2007 | 07:58 PM
#35
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 28
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From: South Jersey
This is the test my brother, a friend and myself tried.
Each of us tow 39+ foot high profile 5th wheels. Mine is the heaviest by a couple of hundred pounds according to the scales that being because it has all the options i.e extra a/c corian countertops, fireplace, etc...
All trucks were stock exept the gasser had exhaust.
I didn't get my mods till October and my brother didn't get Superchips until the same time.
I tow with truck in sig.
Friend tows with 2002 Chev Dually 8.1/Ally05spd
Brother tows with '07 Dually 6.7 Cummins 6spd auto
Test was this. Pennsylvania Turnpike westbound there is a long grade around the Sideling Hill (sp?) service plaza. At the base of the hill we all agreed to hold 'em to the wood.
Outside temps were at 88 deg F.
It was a neat test.
Each of us tow 39+ foot high profile 5th wheels. Mine is the heaviest by a couple of hundred pounds according to the scales that being because it has all the options i.e extra a/c corian countertops, fireplace, etc...
All trucks were stock exept the gasser had exhaust.
I didn't get my mods till October and my brother didn't get Superchips until the same time.
I tow with truck in sig.
Friend tows with 2002 Chev Dually 8.1/Ally05spd
Brother tows with '07 Dually 6.7 Cummins 6spd auto
Test was this. Pennsylvania Turnpike westbound there is a long grade around the Sideling Hill (sp?) service plaza. At the base of the hill we all agreed to hold 'em to the wood.
Outside temps were at 88 deg F.
It was a neat test.
11-21-2007 | 08:06 PM
#36
Registered User
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
From: Bowling Green KY
Two of my buddies have D-Maxes, One is an 03 with the Edge Juice with the Hot tunes stacked with some kinda quadzilla deal or something. From a roll with my RKL tunes its not that much of a race but from a dig its another story he can easily pull a truck length, then I have to play catch up. My other friend just got a 07 Classic D max and added EFI live along with a built ats allison, from a roll he barely pulls from me and from a stop against him id have better luck on a huffy.
11-21-2007 | 08:54 PM
#37
DTR 1st Sergeant
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,530
Likes: 6
From: Applegate, CA
This is the test my brother, a friend and myself tried.
Each of us tow 39+ foot high profile 5th wheels. Mine is the heaviest by a couple of hundred pounds according to the scales that being because it has all the options i.e extra a/c corian countertops, fireplace, etc...
All trucks were stock exept the gasser had exhaust.
I didn't get my mods till October and my brother didn't get Superchips until the same time.
I tow with truck in sig.
Friend tows with 2002 Chev Dually 8.1/Ally05spd
Brother tows with '07 Dually 6.7 Cummins 6spd auto
Test was this. Pennsylvania Turnpike westbound there is a long grade around the Sideling Hill (sp?) service plaza. At the base of the hill we all agreed to hold 'em to the wood.
Outside temps were at 88 deg F.
It was a neat test.
Each of us tow 39+ foot high profile 5th wheels. Mine is the heaviest by a couple of hundred pounds according to the scales that being because it has all the options i.e extra a/c corian countertops, fireplace, etc...
All trucks were stock exept the gasser had exhaust.
I didn't get my mods till October and my brother didn't get Superchips until the same time.
I tow with truck in sig.
Friend tows with 2002 Chev Dually 8.1/Ally05spd
Brother tows with '07 Dually 6.7 Cummins 6spd auto
Test was this. Pennsylvania Turnpike westbound there is a long grade around the Sideling Hill (sp?) service plaza. At the base of the hill we all agreed to hold 'em to the wood.
Outside temps were at 88 deg F.
It was a neat test.
11-21-2007 | 08:56 PM
#38
Muted User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 713
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Y'all can talk about which one will pull a load up a hill faster all day. I don't care if you can base your hypothesis on mathematics because you probably missed some other variable that even Einstien would have missed. The only way to prove which one will win is to actually hook up the two trucks and haul the same load.
Oh and sorry cummins fans, the winner on the right is a 2001 C15 Cat.
11-21-2007 | 08:59 PM
#39
Registered User
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 311
Likes: 0
From: Baghdad, Iraq/Copperas Cove, TX
as Im sure you know, horsepower is merely a function of torque. They both have to correspond to eachother at a given RPM. An engines "torque and hp" ratings are merely the peaks that it makes for those values in its given allowable rpm operating range. Thats why 12v's make "lots of torque and not much hp". Because they dont rev that high and the flow characteristics of their heads causes power and torque to drop off at a fairly low rpm...so when someone posts their engines "dyno results", it really is a pretty silly way to compare power to one another's engines; if engine X has a sweet spot of 1500-2500rpm, and engine Y has a sweet spot of 3500-4500rpm, but you do a dyno run from 1500-3000rpm, which engine is going to "make more hp"???
horsepower = torque x rpm / 5252
then you have gearing, transmission, tire diameter, and engine RPM that can ALL affect rate of accelleration at any given point in time...torque method etc...
momenty force the engine puts on the road = [(engine torque) x (given transmisison gear ratio) x (rear axle ratio)] / tire radius
ENgine hp and torque need to be paired with the proper gearing to allow the engine to most efficently transmit power to the wheels. You can have all the hp and torque in the world, but if you have poor gearing and a transmission that doesnt allow the engine to stay in its power band, that engine isnt ever going to get in its RPM "sweet spot" and put all the power to the wheels that the engine is technically capable of. (48re anyone??)
Towing is just as much about proper gearing as it is about hp/torque.
Id be willing to bet a large sum of money that a 360hp duramax/allison will tow a load to the top of a hill faster than a 360hp CTD/48re. Sure the CTD makes lots of that stump pulling torque a lot lower than the dmax, nobody can argue that.... but what good is it if the dumb 48re cant keep it in that proper RPM range? Why do most heavy haulers choose the nv4500/nv5600/g56???
so the whole saying "grumble grumble so what if it goes 12 seconds at the drag strip and mine only goes 15 seconds, lets hook 15k pounds up and see how good his stupid little 12 second race truck is" holds no water IMO. Engines dont magically tap into this unknown power reserve when they are under a heavy load. Cummins's dont suddenly increase in power when a load is hooked up and duramax's dont suddenly decrease in power when a load is hooked up (although I know thats what a lot of people like to think ).
But hey, Im just the stupid dmax troll voicing his own silly oppinion so y'all dont have to listen to me.
Ben
horsepower = torque x rpm / 5252
then you have gearing, transmission, tire diameter, and engine RPM that can ALL affect rate of accelleration at any given point in time...torque method etc...
momenty force the engine puts on the road = [(engine torque) x (given transmisison gear ratio) x (rear axle ratio)] / tire radius
ENgine hp and torque need to be paired with the proper gearing to allow the engine to most efficently transmit power to the wheels. You can have all the hp and torque in the world, but if you have poor gearing and a transmission that doesnt allow the engine to stay in its power band, that engine isnt ever going to get in its RPM "sweet spot" and put all the power to the wheels that the engine is technically capable of. (48re anyone??)
Towing is just as much about proper gearing as it is about hp/torque.
Id be willing to bet a large sum of money that a 360hp duramax/allison will tow a load to the top of a hill faster than a 360hp CTD/48re. Sure the CTD makes lots of that stump pulling torque a lot lower than the dmax, nobody can argue that.... but what good is it if the dumb 48re cant keep it in that proper RPM range? Why do most heavy haulers choose the nv4500/nv5600/g56???
so the whole saying "grumble grumble so what if it goes 12 seconds at the drag strip and mine only goes 15 seconds, lets hook 15k pounds up and see how good his stupid little 12 second race truck is" holds no water IMO. Engines dont magically tap into this unknown power reserve when they are under a heavy load. Cummins's dont suddenly increase in power when a load is hooked up and duramax's dont suddenly decrease in power when a load is hooked up (although I know thats what a lot of people like to think
). But hey, Im just the stupid dmax troll voicing his own silly oppinion so y'all dont have to listen to me.
Ben
11-21-2007 | 09:15 PM
#40
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: South Jersey
And the results??
It's a long grade...seems like 5 to 7 miles but I'm not sure. It was this September. Maybe someone from the area knows the stretch of the PA Turnpike I'm referring to and can tell me how long it is.
We each had hand held radios. I finished 1st and lost communication and sight of the other two. My brothers Dodge was second and he also lost communication and sight of me and our friends 8.1 gasser. My clutch fan engaged 2 times...my brothers did not. Awesome cooling system on that 6.7. Don't know about the 8.1.
Next month all three of us (and our families are heading to Orlando. Straight run down I95. No hills exept for the Francis Scott key Bridge lol.
I'm getting EFI Live for Christmas so I'll be runnung a mild tow tune and my brother is gonna run his Superchips tow tune to see if we can get better mileage.
This truck modding thing (while new to the both of us) is addictive!
Now that I have a EGT gauge it will be interesting to see how it reacts when pulling.
11-21-2007 | 09:23 PM
#41
Banned
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,470
Likes: 0
From: Auburn Ohio
"just" a turbo, smarty, and dual disc clutch? I would consider a turbo a big mod...
not to sound like an &*# but my buddy ran that (crew cab short bed) with a 60 dollar Transgo Jr. kit, 80 dollar tie rod sleeves and a quick and dirty efilive tune that I wrote him...
Justin- great posts...I was hoping you would respond to this thread... I like it when people respond to threads with a detailed and well thought-out response/argument, not just a "well my truck has a bigger set of 'truck nutz' bolted into the receiver than yours does"
Im just so sick of seeing the generic "well humph, hook up 20 billion pounds and then see who gets to the top of the hill first" excuse WITHOUT being backed up by intelligent reasoning. If one truck is faster (be it a ctd, dmax, psd, whatever), so be it. X truck proved itself to be fast(er) in the real world, at a track, dyno, hill, and thats final...I dont understand why some people just cant accept/acknowledge something that they dont want to beleive. Not that this makes any difference, but I was the first person to congradulate and go wide eyed with excitement when I saw that CR ctd make 1200hp or whatever it was. It was posted on a dmax forum so I could have just as easilly gotten away with saying "well humph, lets see it actually run at the track or do it with fuel only", but I didnt.
Im too tired right now to write a big response but even If I did you'd always top it...this could be discussed until everyone goes insane, but the fact of the matter is IMHO every truck is different and until these two said trucks actually race, we cant say for certain "who will make it to the top first"
Ben
not to sound like an &*# but my buddy ran that (crew cab short bed) with a 60 dollar Transgo Jr. kit, 80 dollar tie rod sleeves and a quick and dirty efilive tune that I wrote him...
Justin- great posts...I was hoping you would respond to this thread...
I like it when people respond to threads with a detailed and well thought-out response/argument, not just a "well my truck has a bigger set of 'truck nutz' bolted into the receiver than yours does" Im just so sick of seeing the generic "well humph, hook up 20 billion pounds and then see who gets to the top of the hill first" excuse WITHOUT being backed up by intelligent reasoning. If one truck is faster (be it a ctd, dmax, psd, whatever), so be it. X truck proved itself to be fast(er) in the real world, at a track, dyno, hill, and thats final...I dont understand why some people just cant accept/acknowledge something that they dont want to beleive. Not that this makes any difference, but I was the first person to congradulate and go wide eyed with excitement when I saw that CR ctd make 1200hp or whatever it was. It was posted on a dmax forum so I could have just as easilly gotten away with saying "well humph, lets see it actually run at the track or do it with fuel only", but I didnt.
Im too tired right now to write a big response but even If I did you'd always top it...this could be discussed until everyone goes insane, but the fact of the matter is IMHO every truck is different and until these two said trucks actually race, we cant say for certain "who will make it to the top first"
Ben
11-21-2007 | 10:19 PM
#43
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 939
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From: South Fork, Colorado
But if hp is truely equal a duramax will not maintain speed on a given hill with out screaming the engine where the cummins will hold it or have the power to leave the other one, with the torque. Just ride beside a dmax while in a car and set the cruise if they are loaded and see if they stay there it doenst take but a slight hill for there speed to fall off.
my stroke makes its torque even higher in the RPM range, and is much heavier than a dmax or CTD and my truck has no problem maintaining speed up La Veta Pass or Raton Pass both pretty nice 7% grades, la veta being a pretty nice one.
My truck loses about 1mph then the turbos spool and i watch the boost gauge move up a bit and the speedometer goes right back to where the cruise control was. Pretty much always stays in gear unless my truck is regenning when it has limited boost and detuned hp.
11-21-2007 | 10:22 PM
#44
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
From: 9000' in Bailey, CO
Just hang a load off the back of the DMax and you got him. When my lift pump died my neighbor tried to pull me up our hill, 30% grade 500' long I had 800#'s of ballast in the bed and my 650# Sno Way blade on, he got me about 1/2 way and stopped. No tire spin nothing just he said he was floored at redline in 4WD and it just stopped. Couldn't give me one them after seeing that. BTW, '9? CTD dually hooked up and pulled me the rest of the way from a dead stop like I was in a Le Car.