rich2500

Anyone ever find out where to get a replacement metering valve?


bosch dealer,if you need a phone# let me know

Floor It

Hey guys, Mrs. Floor It here. I see John posted some things earlier that I was going to address. He had to sneak that in there while I wasn't looking, he's supposed to be out in the shop working - where's that whip cracking smiley?
Anyway, I just wanted to say that I think John's initial concern about this stems from the fact that he knows these pumps inside and out and knows what can go wrong. He's been there, done that, and would really hate to see anyone attempting a DIY mod to end up with either something they aren't happy with or a wrecked pump. It's not about missing out on a sale or being greedy with information. He has a wealth of information about a lot that he gladly shares when asked (sometimes not even asked, the guy just likes to talk trucks.) I know, I listen to him all day.
Now about the price of the pumps. Our customers get what they pay for. I can say that in all honesty and not be afraid of going to hell. Yeah, what John does to the pumps is top secret, it's the result of a lot of hard work and it puts food on our table. But if we're "getting rich" somebody forgot to tell me.

NGM Diesel 1

good point, all of this mess about "do it your self" concerns me too. but most will make the mystake first and then fork out the money for a product that has been R&D'ed. dont you guys know that these are diesels! and tolerances are within a millienth of an inch in these fuel systems, no way can you match that. do the safe and cheaper option, and buy what has allready been thought out.

omaharam

I have John's stage 1 pump. I sent him a pm asking a few questions. Without quoting what he said, I can say that I am not at all disappointed I spent the $595 for his stage 1. It is going to support 600+hp (when I dyno one of these Sundays soon - hint hint John and Mrs. Floor It - John check your pms) and I am convinced that the do it yourself would not adequately support the same power. John has his stage 1 pump to the point that MANY MANY trucks will only need a stage 1 to support the power they are after. If you're going for big big power, maybe you need a stage 2. If going for huge power - duals. But whatever the cost, its the cost. You either pay or you don't. Guess how much it cost DC to build your truck. If your guess is even close, you'd realize it's a lot bigger markup than anybodies dual cp3s - but you bought it anyway. Is a Lambo or Ferrari $125,000 better car than a $60,000 Corvette - NO. You pay, because it's a luxury. Having a 7,000+lb truck that outruns most sports cars - a luxury! So fork out the dough, or don't set your sights so high.

Dan Marino

I only want to learn the most I can without the guys revealing all their secrets. I know they got bills to pay But...I got a little bit of my question answered when MR. And MRS. Floor it posted. They got piles and piles of work to do to keep things clean. See, they just revealed a little more info as to why the thing costs what it does.

But I have to agree with another poster on hours applied to the job.
Hours to rebuild would be nice to know. If I price my dozer work out for 70.00 per hour I am not going to charge 1000 dollars to do a 4 hour job. But they got the market cornered and I guess they can charge whatever they want.

Again, 2 months ago I was asking what a FCA was. I learned a little about it and now the original article by relentless that started this thread broke that down to perfection for me. Thank goodness I saw that. Plus if the FCA goes bad why cant there be a replacement kit to rebuild it? Dodge scraps the whole pump.

Relentless Dsl

I generally stay off the forums whenever possible. But since I apparently started this mess, I guess it's time I chimed in to answer some questions.

A few of you have asked about locating an FCA to play with.

FCA's are available at your local Dodge Dealerships or any Bosch shop. I think they typically sell for about $120.

I'm one of those that was always the do-it-yourself kind. Even back when I first started with diesels I would attempt something myself and screw it up the first few times before I would pay someone to do it for me. (camplates, head porting, hybrid turbos, twin turbos, transmissions, etc.) The knowledge of how the system worked was always more valuable to me.

All I was trying to do with the article was spread some knowledge. Good technical information is hard to find on internet forums.

This wasn't a slam on John @ Floor It or anyone else directly. I recently purchased and tested one of John's stage 2 pumps. I have nothing but good things to say about John's level of customer service and his willingness to make a customer happy. To be perfectly clear that pump ran MUCH better than a modified FCA will ever do.

For those of you interested in learning a bit more about the operation of the FCA, I'll try to explain a few more details to help answer some more of your questions.

The ECM sends a PWM signal to the electromagnet in the FCA. The PWM signal varies from about 37% to 0%. The electromagnet converts the electrical signal to a force on the metering valve. The metering valve has a reaction spring pushing in the opposite direction of the force from the electromagnet. When no electrical signal is present, the spring pushes the metering valve to the fully open position. When the duty cycle from the ECM approaches 37% there is enough force from the electromagnet to overcome the spring completely and the metering valve is pushed to the fully closed position.

The ECM holds the Duty Cycle at a constant rate as long as the rail pressure is at the desired pressure. If the rail pressure is either too high or too low than the ECM SLOWLY adjusts the duty cycle until the proper rail pressure is restored.

When actual rail pressure is 3000-4000 psi lower than the target rail pressure, it may take 2-3 full seconds for the duty cycle of the ECM's signal to drop from 37% down to 0%.

The reason I went into all this detail is because a couple of you asked where the cut was made with the dremel tool.

You won't see ANY benefits of the modification until the duty cycle drops enough to uncover your "enlarged" slot in the metering valve. When we first started modifying these we were scared to upset the normal drivability of the truck so we made all the modifications really low trying to leave most of the valve untouched. What we found was that in most cases, the dyno run was over before the duty cycle got down low enough to realize the benefits. On the street, the truck would feel a little lazy for a second or two and then once the duty cycle got low enough to uncover the port, the rail pressure would jump back up and you could feel a rush of power similar to a nitrous hit.

To answer the question about location. It isn't THAT critical. You may feel more or less lag before the benefits are realized, but that's about it.

On a dyno truck, I would make the slot very high on the metering valve because we have a very limited time frame (3-4 seconds @ 600+HP) to get full fuel in to get the turbo(s) spinning before the pull is over.

On a street driven truck I would make the slot lower so the metering valve is constantly moving over a greater range of motion during normal driving to prevent premature wear at one spot on the metering valve.

I hope that helped the few of you it was intended for.
Happy tinkering.

-Chris

OldSmokey

Thanks Chris. I feel bad because I feel like I started something that grew into way more than I had thought it would or should. This post was never ment to step on anyones toes. Anyway sorry agin if it was out of line. But I do really appriciate what I have learned from all the experts on this form. Joel

fjbiker86

If you think something cost too much, don’t buy it. No one is forcing you. It’s that easy. Who’s to say someone can make money off of their hobby or not. That’s like saying doctors should not get paid as much because they “like” helping people. Or a basketball player is overpaid because he loves basketball.

rich2500

I'm glad this post was started and it's nice to see these type of mods posted,for me I could care less how much power my truck makes on a dyno,I just enjoy tinkering with it and doing the mods myself,If I screw something up oh well It's nothing I can't fix,but so far with all the tinkering I have done nothing has gone wrong,If I gain anything from a free simple little mod as posted that's great,this simple mod is obviously not enough for the guys looking for big power but for someone like me it's something worth trying.I know all about these cp3's and have had many apart to fix leaks and so far not a single problem so i'm sure I can handle a simple mod like what was posted.nice job chris

omaharam

How do you think the dealerships make money in the service department. If you were paying them to replace a cp3, the shop book says it's a 3 hour job (not sure I remember that right) but they do the job in 1.5 hours and then move on to the next vehicle and still charge you 3 hours because that's what the manual says. So for a mechanic's 8 or 9 hours of work, they may be charging 10-15 hours of billable labor.

Argo

Chris. There are plenty of us here that appreciate your honesty and upfront responce. We also appreciate the fact that you put something like that out there for us. There are likely 10 times more that would be happy with 500-600 than there are searching for 700+ hp in there trucks. I may have to go buy a little valve and see what damage I can do to it with a dremel, if if comes out good I will give it a run, if not I will toss it. Thanks again.

OT-OF-Here

I think this has been a very valuable thread as I now know more than I ever thought possible about the function of the cp3 and the fca valve and their potential for power. I commend those who have stepped out and made these much better products than oem in support of our mods and I further thank Chris and John both for their input. You never fully know about the journey until you walk in the other man's shoes.

HappyGA

i also am thankful for this thread. Good info..

CATCRACKER2

if you couple this DIY mod with a dual feed line what will the result be?

rich2500

my diy mods are done , holy bottom end