Common Rail micrograph damage pics
01-13-2009, 08:56 AM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 2,333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whole slew of questions here....
What filtration did that truck have?
What filtration is recommended?
Wear item? What's acceptable wear? E.g. miles, hours?
**** you guys. I go CR to get away from the VP44 and now you have me scared of my new fuel system!!!!
What filtration did that truck have?
What filtration is recommended?
Wear item? What's acceptable wear? E.g. miles, hours?
**** you guys. I go CR to get away from the VP44 and now you have me scared of my new fuel system!!!!
01-13-2009, 09:09 AM
#17
DTR Advertiser
Thread Starter
DM,
This wont cause a leak into the crankcase. This is just an internal leak inside the injector that causes misfires, hard starts, and improper fuel delivery volumes. Leaks into the crankcase is either a torn o-ring, a crack in the injector body ( rare to almost non-existant in the 03-04 engines ) a leak in the connector tube can overhwhelm the return circuit as well.
I dont have a recommened filter kit. Clearly the 03-04 engine injectors have run into the 200,000 to 300,000 mile range on the stock canister and filter from Dodge, but once the pressure came up in the 04.5 and up, the filtration needed to be upgraded as well. A highly efficient filter is half the answer. Low rail pressure values are the other.
All injectors have some level of leakage and wear depending on mileage. Most run fine and dandy and fall within the factory specs, but once you get to the damage I show in the photo, the system is hurt enough to need attention.
This wont cause a leak into the crankcase. This is just an internal leak inside the injector that causes misfires, hard starts, and improper fuel delivery volumes. Leaks into the crankcase is either a torn o-ring, a crack in the injector body ( rare to almost non-existant in the 03-04 engines ) a leak in the connector tube can overhwhelm the return circuit as well.
I dont have a recommened filter kit. Clearly the 03-04 engine injectors have run into the 200,000 to 300,000 mile range on the stock canister and filter from Dodge, but once the pressure came up in the 04.5 and up, the filtration needed to be upgraded as well. A highly efficient filter is half the answer. Low rail pressure values are the other.
All injectors have some level of leakage and wear depending on mileage. Most run fine and dandy and fall within the factory specs, but once you get to the damage I show in the photo, the system is hurt enough to need attention.
01-13-2009, 09:53 AM
#19
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 874
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DM,
This wont cause a leak into the crankcase. This is just an internal leak inside the injector that causes misfires, hard starts, and improper fuel delivery volumes. Leaks into the crankcase is either a torn o-ring, a crack in the injector body ( rare to almost non-existant in the 03-04 engines ) a leak in the connector tube can overhwhelm the return circuit as well.
I dont have a recommened filter kit. Clearly the 03-04 engine injectors have run into the 200,000 to 300,000 mile range on the stock canister and filter from Dodge, but once the pressure came up in the 04.5 and up, the filtration needed to be upgraded as well. A highly efficient filter is half the answer. Low rail pressure values are the other.
All injectors have some level of leakage and wear depending on mileage. Most run fine and dandy and fall within the factory specs, but once you get to the damage I show in the photo, the system is hurt enough to need attention.
This wont cause a leak into the crankcase. This is just an internal leak inside the injector that causes misfires, hard starts, and improper fuel delivery volumes. Leaks into the crankcase is either a torn o-ring, a crack in the injector body ( rare to almost non-existant in the 03-04 engines ) a leak in the connector tube can overhwhelm the return circuit as well.
I dont have a recommened filter kit. Clearly the 03-04 engine injectors have run into the 200,000 to 300,000 mile range on the stock canister and filter from Dodge, but once the pressure came up in the 04.5 and up, the filtration needed to be upgraded as well. A highly efficient filter is half the answer. Low rail pressure values are the other.
All injectors have some level of leakage and wear depending on mileage. Most run fine and dandy and fall within the factory specs, but once you get to the damage I show in the photo, the system is hurt enough to need attention.
So when do we need to service our injectors for internal wear?
01-13-2009, 10:05 AM
#20
Registered User
01-13-2009, 10:26 AM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 874
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
01-13-2009, 10:31 AM
#24
DTR 1st Sergeant
Well I will give an anecdotal response. With my 04 truck (lower pressure) I sent my stix to Don with about 110k on them and using a Banks six-gun on lower levels for the most part... he found a couple of them that were just inside factory leak limits as I recall. Meaning, depending on your usage and mileage and other environmental factors such a filtration and fuel quality, you could possibly be in the same boat as me... but since you already have his stuff, I am sure he took care of any issue then.
01-13-2009, 10:44 AM
#25
DTR Advertiser
Thread Starter
I did respond, but the post is missing for some reason? It was there and now its gone. Weird.
Wear rates vary widely. Mostly because every engine is subjected to different fuel quality, rail pressure values, fuel filter change intervals, and every injector has its own initial quality from the factory. Some are just flat out better than others. Remember we are dealing with things measured in the micron range here.
Most engines go 100,000 or more miles and still have good injectors. Users will usually have hard starts, poor running conditions, etc. before they need to worry about injector problems, excessive wear, or sending injectors for testing. The dealer can always do a return rate test. That test was developed for finding the damage I show in the photos above.
I had a box of injectors here you sent me. Some of the parts/pieces were used to repair the injectors I returned back to you. I thought we were square on the deal, but maybe I am mistaken. If I owe you some used injectors, parts, pieces or whatever, let me know. I thought we had a bunch of rusty injectors we tried to get a complete set out of, but I could be mistaken.
Wear rates vary widely. Mostly because every engine is subjected to different fuel quality, rail pressure values, fuel filter change intervals, and every injector has its own initial quality from the factory. Some are just flat out better than others. Remember we are dealing with things measured in the micron range here.
Most engines go 100,000 or more miles and still have good injectors. Users will usually have hard starts, poor running conditions, etc. before they need to worry about injector problems, excessive wear, or sending injectors for testing. The dealer can always do a return rate test. That test was developed for finding the damage I show in the photos above.
I had a box of injectors here you sent me. Some of the parts/pieces were used to repair the injectors I returned back to you. I thought we were square on the deal, but maybe I am mistaken. If I owe you some used injectors, parts, pieces or whatever, let me know. I thought we had a bunch of rusty injectors we tried to get a complete set out of, but I could be mistaken.
01-13-2009, 11:38 AM
#26
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 874
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did respond, but the post is missing for some reason? It was there and now its gone. Weird.
Wear rates vary widely. Mostly because every engine is subjected to different fuel quality, rail pressure values, fuel filter change intervals, and every injector has its own initial quality from the factory. Some are just flat out better than others. Remember we are dealing with things measured in the micron range here.
Most engines go 100,000 or more miles and still have good injectors. Users will usually have hard starts, poor running conditions, etc. before they need to worry about injector problems, excessive wear, or sending injectors for testing. The dealer can always do a return rate test. That test was developed for finding the damage I show in the photos above.
I had a box of injectors here you sent me. Some of the parts/pieces were used to repair the injectors I returned back to you. I thought we were square on the deal, but maybe I am mistaken. If I owe you some used injectors, parts, pieces or whatever, let me know. I thought we had a bunch of rusty injectors we tried to get a complete set out of, but I could be mistaken.
Wear rates vary widely. Mostly because every engine is subjected to different fuel quality, rail pressure values, fuel filter change intervals, and every injector has its own initial quality from the factory. Some are just flat out better than others. Remember we are dealing with things measured in the micron range here.
Most engines go 100,000 or more miles and still have good injectors. Users will usually have hard starts, poor running conditions, etc. before they need to worry about injector problems, excessive wear, or sending injectors for testing. The dealer can always do a return rate test. That test was developed for finding the damage I show in the photos above.
I had a box of injectors here you sent me. Some of the parts/pieces were used to repair the injectors I returned back to you. I thought we were square on the deal, but maybe I am mistaken. If I owe you some used injectors, parts, pieces or whatever, let me know. I thought we had a bunch of rusty injectors we tried to get a complete set out of, but I could be mistaken.
I was just wanting to know if I should do a yearly 'schedule' or something like a tear down during the winter and send them to you for internal wear check. I guess maybe I took the 'wear' component thing a little too literal. 
As far as spare parts - this is no big deal. you did have some spare parts that you were going to send back to me. Some were junk and some were useable. But like I said -no biggy. Thanks for all the help.
BTW I just talked to a fellow who does p-pump conversions - he talked highly of your common rail injectors. Said there was no other way to go for a computer truck. I thought 'tell me something I dont know'
01-13-2009, 04:05 PM
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston Mo
Posts: 985
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DM,
This wont cause a leak into the crankcase. This is just an internal leak inside the injector that causes misfires, hard starts, and improper fuel delivery volumes. Leaks into the crankcase is either a torn o-ring, a crack in the injector body ( rare to almost non-existant in the 03-04 engines ) a leak in the connector tube can overhwhelm the return circuit as well.
I dont have a recommened filter kit. Clearly the 03-04 engine injectors have run into the 200,000 to 300,000 mile range on the stock canister and filter from Dodge, but once the pressure came up in the 04.5 and up, the filtration needed to be upgraded as well. A highly efficient filter is half the answer. Low rail pressure values are the other.
All injectors have some level of leakage and wear depending on mileage. Most run fine and dandy and fall within the factory specs, but once you get to the damage I show in the photo, the system is hurt enough to need attention.
This wont cause a leak into the crankcase. This is just an internal leak inside the injector that causes misfires, hard starts, and improper fuel delivery volumes. Leaks into the crankcase is either a torn o-ring, a crack in the injector body ( rare to almost non-existant in the 03-04 engines ) a leak in the connector tube can overhwhelm the return circuit as well.
I dont have a recommened filter kit. Clearly the 03-04 engine injectors have run into the 200,000 to 300,000 mile range on the stock canister and filter from Dodge, but once the pressure came up in the 04.5 and up, the filtration needed to be upgraded as well. A highly efficient filter is half the answer. Low rail pressure values are the other.
All injectors have some level of leakage and wear depending on mileage. Most run fine and dandy and fall within the factory specs, but once you get to the damage I show in the photo, the system is hurt enough to need attention.
P.S. can we get a pic of Jasons injectors???
01-13-2009, 06:48 PM
#28
So on an 04.5-07, would and could it run on a tune that keeps the RP inline with the 03-04.Like mentioned earlier,the 04.5 and up run at 17k+ cruising on stock RP levels and 20k+ towing.If a custom tune could be had(Smarty)that dropped daily driving RP's down,would it work??????
01-14-2009, 08:42 AM
#29
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: texas
Posts: 1,163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
At 20000psi, water in fuel can also cause 'etching' of CP3 and injectors, not to mention Rail Pressure regulator solenoids, particularly worrysome as those water droplets aren't large enuff to coalesce and trigger the WIF indicator - fuel from any failed pump should be sent for analysis to correctly define the failure causative - water contamination tends to be greatest in cold damp climate
01-14-2009, 05:23 PM
#30
Registered User
The WIF lights on these trucks is a joke.. Hardly anyone has had it to come on. Imulsified water in the fuel can be an issue but the water seperation on our trucks is not very good, hence that is why folks upgrade the LP with a FASS or AirDog type with better filtration ( 2 Micron with water seperation and an additional water seperation filter).