Common Rail EDM Injectors
03-03-2005, 08:37 PM
#77
DTR Advertiser
Dang, its March! Time flys when you are having fun or working hard. Mostly the working hard comes into play here, but had a bit of fun today when I checked my voice mail.
Using an 04 H.O. with a DTT auto tranny, Olee Pooles awesome twin turbos, a TST box and a set of Flux EDM injectors a very patient young fella made 623 HP. Uncorrected on a DynoJet.
I have been sitting on my hands waiting for this. His first set of EDM injectors were lost by UPS back in the Fall. The second set found their target!
With some tweaks on the design and a little pressure box tuning to add to the TST box, he will have a solid 650 HP combination. Im being very conservative guys, no BS. We will have a 650 plus parts combination in a few weeks.
As far as EDM injectors being ready...they are now on a very limited basis, but my dealers have all the available sets I had, spoken for. The dang waiting list is long and I am way behind on parts building. Hang tite...Im pulling double time to get them out and going faster. A few dozen sets are leaving this month. Things are picking up.
Sorry the 03 and early 04 is only available at this time. Nothing for the 600 although they are very close to being fully tested and have been in testing for just about a year now. Still gettting 20 MPG in the 04.5/600 test rig and 1250 MAX EGT at 586 HP.
As soon as things improve on production everyone will know. The pressure box we will be stacking with them will be a combination to add 100 HP or more to the trucks that are running around with twins, the TST box, and using honed, stock or "other" EDM injectors!
Don~
Using an 04 H.O. with a DTT auto tranny, Olee Pooles awesome twin turbos, a TST box and a set of Flux EDM injectors a very patient young fella made 623 HP. Uncorrected on a DynoJet.
I have been sitting on my hands waiting for this. His first set of EDM injectors were lost by UPS back in the Fall. The second set found their target!
With some tweaks on the design and a little pressure box tuning to add to the TST box, he will have a solid 650 HP combination. Im being very conservative guys, no BS. We will have a 650 plus parts combination in a few weeks.
As far as EDM injectors being ready...they are now on a very limited basis, but my dealers have all the available sets I had, spoken for. The dang waiting list is long and I am way behind on parts building. Hang tite...Im pulling double time to get them out and going faster. A few dozen sets are leaving this month. Things are picking up.
Sorry the 03 and early 04 is only available at this time. Nothing for the 600 although they are very close to being fully tested and have been in testing for just about a year now. Still gettting 20 MPG in the 04.5/600 test rig and 1250 MAX EGT at 586 HP.
As soon as things improve on production everyone will know. The pressure box we will be stacking with them will be a combination to add 100 HP or more to the trucks that are running around with twins, the TST box, and using honed, stock or "other" EDM injectors!
Don~
03-03-2005, 11:22 PM
#80
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Hey Don,
Diesel Dynamics is now offering honed tips for our trucks that we change ourselves. The benefit being we get to keep our stock tips if we ever need to go back, they are a little cheaper, and no core charge. The process for changing the tips seems fairly easy and straight forward. Seeing that this would provide a significant time and cost savings to the customer, do you see being able to offer your tips for the customer to change themselves when availability improves?
Diesel Dynamics is now offering honed tips for our trucks that we change ourselves. The benefit being we get to keep our stock tips if we ever need to go back, they are a little cheaper, and no core charge. The process for changing the tips seems fairly easy and straight forward. Seeing that this would provide a significant time and cost savings to the customer, do you see being able to offer your tips for the customer to change themselves when availability improves?
03-04-2005, 12:02 AM
#81
DTR Advertiser
AK, I totally disagree with that practice. Too many things can go wrong.
As much as I hate breaking these injectors down, smelling the Diesel fuel, and dealing with the issues of shipping and insurance...its the only way to insure you get a final product I am happy to let out the door.
Of the sets ( many many ) of Common Rail injectors I have disassembled, I see a huge percentage with internal damage. Damage that a normal guy cant repair or may not even see. With the pressure box junkies that run them on high settings...nearly all of the injectors I have received were roached. Some with less than 10K miles of high pressure were working about 50% of their expected delivery.
Adding: some of the nozzle retaining nuts are so dang tite the average fella aint gettin' 'em off with any real ease. Use an impact gun and you run the chance of cracking the nut or starting a crack that will fail later.
A large percentage of the nozzle swappers will succeed and the truck will run good. Some will feel the injectors are fine and get a suprise on dyno day or in their mileage returns. The ones that dont succeed could have a real mess on their hands. I dont want to be involved in that. Wish I could just sell parts. I could get rid of all this spendy equipment and my day would be cake.
Don~
As much as I hate breaking these injectors down, smelling the Diesel fuel, and dealing with the issues of shipping and insurance...its the only way to insure you get a final product I am happy to let out the door.
Of the sets ( many many ) of Common Rail injectors I have disassembled, I see a huge percentage with internal damage. Damage that a normal guy cant repair or may not even see. With the pressure box junkies that run them on high settings...nearly all of the injectors I have received were roached. Some with less than 10K miles of high pressure were working about 50% of their expected delivery.
Adding: some of the nozzle retaining nuts are so dang tite the average fella aint gettin' 'em off with any real ease. Use an impact gun and you run the chance of cracking the nut or starting a crack that will fail later.
A large percentage of the nozzle swappers will succeed and the truck will run good. Some will feel the injectors are fine and get a suprise on dyno day or in their mileage returns. The ones that dont succeed could have a real mess on their hands. I dont want to be involved in that. Wish I could just sell parts. I could get rid of all this spendy equipment and my day would be cake.
Don~
03-04-2005, 09:41 AM
#82
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Well that bites. How about offering entire injector swaps with a core charge like your 2nd Gen injectors once they become more common? I'm just grabbing for options here. Living way up here, not like I can drive to Olee's or Rip's for a quick swap one day.
03-04-2005, 10:09 AM
#83
DTR Advertiser
Yes, the second option is a posibility. I know the vendors who got the extrude honed style of injectors out first...had a few troubles with that system.
They would take a set of injectors in as cores and send out the ones they had ready, but soon a few set sof cores were turning out to be bad. The next customer would get the bad cores fromthe previous customer and not be very happy.
The biggest obsticle we have to overcome now is a lack of parts and a lack of quality test equipment. We cant fully test the electronics and the fuel dosing levels. About all we can do is disassemble them, clean them, check everything carefully, repair any damage ( as long as I have an organ donor injector here with the right parts ) , and pressure test them. I have some tools now to pop and chatter test the nozzles, but I cant fully test the soleniod operation under running conditions.
When I do the nozzle swap I insist on a set of properly running injectors. Usually from the truck the injectors are going back into. If the truck has injector issues already, I suggest the owner gets DC to repair the truck first. Replace any bad injectors, etc.
Don~
They would take a set of injectors in as cores and send out the ones they had ready, but soon a few set sof cores were turning out to be bad. The next customer would get the bad cores fromthe previous customer and not be very happy.
The biggest obsticle we have to overcome now is a lack of parts and a lack of quality test equipment. We cant fully test the electronics and the fuel dosing levels. About all we can do is disassemble them, clean them, check everything carefully, repair any damage ( as long as I have an organ donor injector here with the right parts ) , and pressure test them. I have some tools now to pop and chatter test the nozzles, but I cant fully test the soleniod operation under running conditions.
When I do the nozzle swap I insist on a set of properly running injectors. Usually from the truck the injectors are going back into. If the truck has injector issues already, I suggest the owner gets DC to repair the truck first. Replace any bad injectors, etc.
Don~
03-04-2005, 10:20 AM
#84
Registered User
Don M
Unfortunately convincing DC/Star that you have bad injector(s) and then having all of the bad injectors replaced, is a painful and sometimes fruitless endeavor. That is why I am considering changing injectors. The problem seems to be much more prevelant on the 600s.
I will keep waiting and watching until there is a simple way to get quality performance injectors installed without the truck being down too long.
Unfortunately convincing DC/Star that you have bad injector(s) and then having all of the bad injectors replaced, is a painful and sometimes fruitless endeavor. That is why I am considering changing injectors. The problem seems to be much more prevelant on the 600s.
I will keep waiting and watching until there is a simple way to get quality performance injectors installed without the truck being down too long.
03-04-2005, 10:56 AM
#86
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Yeah don I know you have a lot of things on your plate but I'm one of the 600 drivers with crappy injectors that Star says work fine. I and I assume many others have been waiting for you to release you injectors so we can do what DC won't do and replace our own crappy injectors. The added performance will be nice but I'd settle for just having my truck run properly not "normal".
03-04-2005, 01:00 PM
#87
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Originally posted by MedicShawn
Yeah don I know you have a lot of things on your plate but I'm one of the 600 drivers with crappy injectors that Star says work fine. I and I assume many others have been waiting for you to release you injectors so we can do what DC won't do and replace our own crappy injectors. The added performance will be nice but I'd settle for just having my truck run properly not "normal".
Yeah don I know you have a lot of things on your plate but I'm one of the 600 drivers with crappy injectors that Star says work fine. I and I assume many others have been waiting for you to release you injectors so we can do what DC won't do and replace our own crappy injectors. The added performance will be nice but I'd settle for just having my truck run properly not "normal".
03-04-2005, 01:43 PM
#88
DTR Advertiser
Unfortunantly, the 600 and up engines will always rattle and make more engine noise.
The timing of the injection events is just not as friendly as the 305/555. Part of the 50 state legal requirements made the fueling maps harder to work with.
The nozzle design does not lend itself to ease of power making above 500 and is harder to control white smoke output in cold weather and cold engines.
The mileage is averaging in the 19-20 range with the 04.5 EDM sticks.
Don~
The timing of the injection events is just not as friendly as the 305/555. Part of the 50 state legal requirements made the fueling maps harder to work with.
The nozzle design does not lend itself to ease of power making above 500 and is harder to control white smoke output in cold weather and cold engines.
The mileage is averaging in the 19-20 range with the 04.5 EDM sticks.
Don~
03-04-2005, 03:55 PM
#89
Registered User
Don M
Ok, I'll settle for 500hp and the same white smoke in cold weather and the same rattle. If its gonna rattle, I want to know the reason for that rattle.
My 600 for the first 7500 miles was smooth, quiet and idled smooth enough to balance things on the valve cover. Since then one injector replaced by DC/Star("The others are ok")and it still idles so rough that the antenna whips like in a gail, and keys make racket in the console storage.
I was looking for 550hp, but hey, any port in a storm. Let us know when the 600s are ready to try.
Thanks,
Ok, I'll settle for 500hp and the same white smoke in cold weather and the same rattle. If its gonna rattle, I want to know the reason for that rattle.
My 600 for the first 7500 miles was smooth, quiet and idled smooth enough to balance things on the valve cover. Since then one injector replaced by DC/Star("The others are ok")and it still idles so rough that the antenna whips like in a gail, and keys make racket in the console storage.
I was looking for 550hp, but hey, any port in a storm. Let us know when the 600s are ready to try.
Thanks,
03-04-2005, 04:16 PM
#90
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So exactly what injectors are ready for the 555 motor? What are the hp/turque and mileage gains? I'm looking for maximum efficiency and a little hp kick that will work well with other power adders like the downloaders or edge / tst / banks systems.