Carli trackbar and WARNING about Lazarsmith bushings
09-13-2008, 09:47 PM
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Carli trackbar and WARNING about Lazarsmith bushings
I just installed my new Carli adjujstable track bar and it is a very nice piece. This bar uses an FK industrial heim in one end and a delrin bushing in the other to allow some give w/o wearing out components like other bars that use a heim at each end. The fit was perfect and installation was easy. My front axle is now back to center where it should be.
The Carli track bar replaced a set of offset bushings i purchased from Lazarsmith here on this forum. I am going to be honest and put the truth out there about Lazarsmiths product. I will start from the beginning after recieving a set of Lazarsmiths offset bushings. The first thing i noticed was they came w/ a plastic shell/sleeve which was cracked down the center (both sleeves). i wasnt very enthused about using a plastic sleeve in an application such as this, and i wasnt sure if these sleeves were supposed to be cracked or not. So i called Lazarsmith and he assured me the "polymer" shells were supposed to be split down the center to allow them to slide over the bushing easier. He also assured me this material is plenty strong enough for this application but at the same time he stressed the importance of pressing in the bushings/shells perfectly straight otherwise the shells would chip or break. To me this was the first sign I had been taken, but i gave him the benifit of the doubt and bought all his fancy scientific talk about the "properties"of these materials. The next thing i noticed about these bushings was however they were cut to length, it was very slopy. It looked like they were cut w/ a sawzall or hacksaw, but it was more likely very careless cutting on a bandsaw that caused this. I could stand the bushings up on end and see how badly they were leaning to the side from not being cut square. I did not mention this to Lazarsmith as i thought it would be rather insulting to question his craftsmanship and i didnt think it would cause and ill effects while installed. The last thing that worried me about these bushings were they used a bronze inner sleeve which imo is rather soft for this application as well. Lazarsmith told me these bronze inner sleeves were meant to wear and be replacable. So anyway like i said i bought into all of this and went forward w/ installing my new offset bushings. the install was very easy, honestly it was too easy. The bushings pressed into place w/ minimal effort given the fact that the outer shells were plastic or as Lazarsmith likes to refer to them as "polymer". At this point i now felt very uneasy about using these bushings, but they were already installed and the factory bushings were bad from the beginning so i had no choice but to go forth w/ installing the bar back onto the truck. The first thing i did was go to the dealer for an alignment. All was well, the truck drove straight as an arrow, the axle was centered, and i was feeling better about everything. Well that didnt last long. Over the next few months i noticed the alignment becoming worse and worse and the steering wheel becoming more and more off center. I took a look at the track bar and sure enough the bushings were giving out. The offset bushing had rotated from the stress of the track bar pushing and pulling on it as the suspension traveled up and down. The bushing was now offset in the wrong direction as was causing a worse condition than i had before ever installing these bushings. I made a thread on this forum and Lazarsmith responded and i ended up speaking w/ him through pm's. He told me this was the first and only time he had ever heard of this happening. I simply couldnt believe it and told him i was very unhappy w/ his product. I told him i wasnt interested in asking for a refund and i would simply remedy the problem by purchasing an adjustable track bar which i have now done. After removing the stock trackbar w/ the Lazarsmith offset bushings in it I was very angry to say the least after seeing what these bushings looked like after having 5-10k miles on them. The shells had basicaly fallen apart, the bronze inner sleeve was badly worn to the point there was not much of it left, and the offset bushing was facing completely the opposite of where i previously installed it. I trusted this guy and took his word on everything he told me. I should have known better and trusted what my own knowledge and experience was telling me from the start. I dont care what fancy name he has for these materials which he uses in his bushings, but they are plastic plain and simple anyway you look at it and they have no place in this application he intends them to be used for.
I have decided to put this info out there to inform others who may be thinking of purchasing this product or who may be using this prioduct at the moment. Do yourself a favor and think twice about trusting these plastic parts in your $40k, 8000lb truck.
BTW, before installing the bushings i showed them to some friends of mine who own a chassis fabrication shop and build anything from pulling tractors to pro mods. They design and make their own parts on their CNC mill and are at the top of their game in my area and are well respected to say the least. When i asked them to look at these parts and asked for their opinion, they simply told me "dont use them". I should have listened to them.
The Carli track bar replaced a set of offset bushings i purchased from Lazarsmith here on this forum. I am going to be honest and put the truth out there about Lazarsmiths product. I will start from the beginning after recieving a set of Lazarsmiths offset bushings. The first thing i noticed was they came w/ a plastic shell/sleeve which was cracked down the center (both sleeves). i wasnt very enthused about using a plastic sleeve in an application such as this, and i wasnt sure if these sleeves were supposed to be cracked or not. So i called Lazarsmith and he assured me the "polymer" shells were supposed to be split down the center to allow them to slide over the bushing easier. He also assured me this material is plenty strong enough for this application but at the same time he stressed the importance of pressing in the bushings/shells perfectly straight otherwise the shells would chip or break. To me this was the first sign I had been taken, but i gave him the benifit of the doubt and bought all his fancy scientific talk about the "properties"of these materials. The next thing i noticed about these bushings was however they were cut to length, it was very slopy. It looked like they were cut w/ a sawzall or hacksaw, but it was more likely very careless cutting on a bandsaw that caused this. I could stand the bushings up on end and see how badly they were leaning to the side from not being cut square. I did not mention this to Lazarsmith as i thought it would be rather insulting to question his craftsmanship and i didnt think it would cause and ill effects while installed. The last thing that worried me about these bushings were they used a bronze inner sleeve which imo is rather soft for this application as well. Lazarsmith told me these bronze inner sleeves were meant to wear and be replacable. So anyway like i said i bought into all of this and went forward w/ installing my new offset bushings. the install was very easy, honestly it was too easy. The bushings pressed into place w/ minimal effort given the fact that the outer shells were plastic or as Lazarsmith likes to refer to them as "polymer". At this point i now felt very uneasy about using these bushings, but they were already installed and the factory bushings were bad from the beginning so i had no choice but to go forth w/ installing the bar back onto the truck. The first thing i did was go to the dealer for an alignment. All was well, the truck drove straight as an arrow, the axle was centered, and i was feeling better about everything. Well that didnt last long. Over the next few months i noticed the alignment becoming worse and worse and the steering wheel becoming more and more off center. I took a look at the track bar and sure enough the bushings were giving out. The offset bushing had rotated from the stress of the track bar pushing and pulling on it as the suspension traveled up and down. The bushing was now offset in the wrong direction as was causing a worse condition than i had before ever installing these bushings. I made a thread on this forum and Lazarsmith responded and i ended up speaking w/ him through pm's. He told me this was the first and only time he had ever heard of this happening. I simply couldnt believe it and told him i was very unhappy w/ his product. I told him i wasnt interested in asking for a refund and i would simply remedy the problem by purchasing an adjustable track bar which i have now done. After removing the stock trackbar w/ the Lazarsmith offset bushings in it I was very angry to say the least after seeing what these bushings looked like after having 5-10k miles on them. The shells had basicaly fallen apart, the bronze inner sleeve was badly worn to the point there was not much of it left, and the offset bushing was facing completely the opposite of where i previously installed it. I trusted this guy and took his word on everything he told me. I should have known better and trusted what my own knowledge and experience was telling me from the start. I dont care what fancy name he has for these materials which he uses in his bushings, but they are plastic plain and simple anyway you look at it and they have no place in this application he intends them to be used for.
I have decided to put this info out there to inform others who may be thinking of purchasing this product or who may be using this prioduct at the moment. Do yourself a favor and think twice about trusting these plastic parts in your $40k, 8000lb truck.
BTW, before installing the bushings i showed them to some friends of mine who own a chassis fabrication shop and build anything from pulling tractors to pro mods. They design and make their own parts on their CNC mill and are at the top of their game in my area and are well respected to say the least. When i asked them to look at these parts and asked for their opinion, they simply told me "dont use them". I should have listened to them.
09-14-2008, 05:03 AM
#3
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Sorry to see you're disgruntled, Randy!
We would've been happy to refund your money or send new track bar bushings - I even offered to buy your OEM track bar last spring to help offset the cost of an aftermarket bar.
Your order has a ship date of January 7th 2008, so you certainly had enough time to resolve any problem in a civil manner.
For the record, you remain the ONLY customer to complain of a track bar bushing rotating after pressing in. When installed correctly, there's no torque available to turn the bushings out of place - in any case the bushings are much too tight to spin if you tried.
As for the "fancy names"... as I told you several months ago - we fabricate materials, not the names by which their vendors sell them.
The bushing shell is a high-temperature, high-pressure polymer bearing with a parting line (an artifact of their spin-cast injection molding)... if the parting line cracks, it has no adverse effect on it's function of locating the bushing core within the bore - and any portion of the shells extending beyond the track bar serves no purpose.
The reason for care to avoid breaking up the shell during installation is obvious.
The bushing cores are machined from engineering plastics - such as UHMW-PE (Delrin
) - which have proven performance & reliability in the power transmission industry as lube-free, low friction bearings.
The bushing inserts are oil-impregnated bronze bearings - again, a very long track record established in countless applications.
All three of the above materials are rated for Pressure/Velocity values far greater than what they are subjected to in the track bar.
There are many trucks with many thousands of miles on these zero-deflection bushings - they're holding up rather well! To date, not even a single bronze insert replaced...
Obviously, we're not responsible for improper installation of our parts by others, yet we still offered to satisfy you as a customer in whatever way we could - apparently, you've chosen to malign my company and my good name in return.
BTW - none of my $40K, 8000lb trucks have anything BUT plastic left in the front ends - no rubber to be found... handling, steering & stability are better than ever!
We would've been happy to refund your money or send new track bar bushings - I even offered to buy your OEM track bar last spring to help offset the cost of an aftermarket bar.
Your order has a ship date of January 7th 2008, so you certainly had enough time to resolve any problem in a civil manner.
For the record, you remain the ONLY customer to complain of a track bar bushing rotating after pressing in. When installed correctly, there's no torque available to turn the bushings out of place - in any case the bushings are much too tight to spin if you tried.
As for the "fancy names"... as I told you several months ago - we fabricate materials, not the names by which their vendors sell them.
The bushing shell is a high-temperature, high-pressure polymer bearing with a parting line (an artifact of their spin-cast injection molding)... if the parting line cracks, it has no adverse effect on it's function of locating the bushing core within the bore - and any portion of the shells extending beyond the track bar serves no purpose.
The reason for care to avoid breaking up the shell during installation is obvious.
The bushing cores are machined from engineering plastics - such as UHMW-PE (Delrin
) - which have proven performance & reliability in the power transmission industry as lube-free, low friction bearings.The bushing inserts are oil-impregnated bronze bearings - again, a very long track record established in countless applications.
All three of the above materials are rated for Pressure/Velocity values far greater than what they are subjected to in the track bar.
There are many trucks with many thousands of miles on these zero-deflection bushings - they're holding up rather well! To date, not even a single bronze insert replaced...
Obviously, we're not responsible for improper installation of our parts by others, yet we still offered to satisfy you as a customer in whatever way we could - apparently, you've chosen to malign my company and my good name in return.
BTW - none of my $40K, 8000lb trucks have anything BUT plastic left in the front ends - no rubber to be found... handling, steering & stability are better than ever!
09-14-2008, 09:00 AM
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Lazarsmith, the bushings did not work for me plain and simple. i dont blame you in the least for trying to defend your product, BUT it seems you are suggesting that it was installer error which caused this problem as well as stating that i am trying to "malign" your good name. I will be honest w/ you, i have no idea what that word means but im sure it is comparable to the word slander. You seem to be very skilled in using complex vocab and scientific references on a regular basis which is fine if thats what floats your boat. But i have more important things to do w/ my time than discover fancy words to boost my ego and my rep.
I intended the first post of this thread to be my only post simply as a warning to what could happen when using your product simply because the FACT is it HAPPENED. I also shared my experience w/ tha Carli product to hopefully point others in the right direction on a proper fix for a worn out or incorrect lenght track bar. But since you want to point the finger of blame at me and then tell me i did a no no by "malign" your company i guess i will discuss this issue w/ you here in front of everyone so there will be NO misunderstandings of any kind.
If you feel i am slandering you or your company, i suggest you contact an attorney promptly and get the ball rolling. I will be honest w/ you, i have no intention of even wasting my time or money in hiring an attorney to represent myself. I will simply show up in court w/ trackbar in hand and allow the judge to see first hand how your product FAILED. I may even bring a few friends along who are experts in the field of automotive and performance fabrication. Oh and btw, yes they even have a friend who is an expert in PLASTICS. And yes he did look at your bushings and while he agreed that the main bushing component (which i believe he did refer to as delrin) is suitable for this application, the outer shells are NOT. So if you want to suggest legal action, dont even bother to post the threat. Just go ahead and get the ball rolling like i said, but keep in mind the outcome will be made public on this forum as well as many others.
As far as installer error goes, i am not even going to get bent out of shape over it. I have installed hundreds of suspension bushings in multiple applications as well as pressed countless wheel bearings, ball joints, balance shaft bearings inside of engine blocks, etc. The equiptment i have access to (hydro press, snapon press tools) are more than sufficient to do this job properly and i have more than enough experience to install your special bushings properly. Like i said the install was VERY easy. The bushings/shells pressed in w/ ease and required barely any pressure for the press fit, which i believe to be because of the soft outer shell. You should know that if something requires so little force to be pressfit it will require little force to be moved, which is exactly what happened.
You say there is no tq in this application to rotate the bushings. I as well as others disagree. The suspensions vertical travel alone is placing a tq load on the bushing. The track bar not only sees horizonal forces, it also sees limited vertical rotation as well which is where the tq comes from.
You say you have plenty of trucks running these bushings w/o incident, I dont believe you. Maybee you have success w/ the non-offset bushings, but i dont believe that you have plenty of trucks running the offset versions successfully.
When i look at your website i see some things that bother me. I see poor welds on cheap materials such as angle steel used for your ladder bar brackets. I see a hardware store plumbing contraption which i wouldnt even want under my kitchen sink much less under the hood of my truck. And i see a bunch of scientific bs that doesnt mean much to anyone other than yourself.
IMO you throw a bunch of materials together by whatever means you have at hand and call it fabricating. If you are having success coodos to you but i have tried one of your products and have had it fail. I made this thread to make people aware there are better ways to remedy a track bar issue and that is all it was intended for. Imagine if i had experienced dw due to your product while driving down the hwy w/ my wife and kids in the truck. I wouldnt be sitting here typing, I would voice my concerns to you in person.
If you want to consider yourself a fabricator thats fine w/ me, i dont care who you are or what you do. But this time it affected me personaly and i am voicing my experience here for others to take note of. Take it for what its worth.
I intended the first post of this thread to be my only post simply as a warning to what could happen when using your product simply because the FACT is it HAPPENED. I also shared my experience w/ tha Carli product to hopefully point others in the right direction on a proper fix for a worn out or incorrect lenght track bar. But since you want to point the finger of blame at me and then tell me i did a no no by "malign" your company i guess i will discuss this issue w/ you here in front of everyone so there will be NO misunderstandings of any kind.
If you feel i am slandering you or your company, i suggest you contact an attorney promptly and get the ball rolling. I will be honest w/ you, i have no intention of even wasting my time or money in hiring an attorney to represent myself. I will simply show up in court w/ trackbar in hand and allow the judge to see first hand how your product FAILED. I may even bring a few friends along who are experts in the field of automotive and performance fabrication. Oh and btw, yes they even have a friend who is an expert in PLASTICS. And yes he did look at your bushings and while he agreed that the main bushing component (which i believe he did refer to as delrin) is suitable for this application, the outer shells are NOT. So if you want to suggest legal action, dont even bother to post the threat. Just go ahead and get the ball rolling like i said, but keep in mind the outcome will be made public on this forum as well as many others.
As far as installer error goes, i am not even going to get bent out of shape over it. I have installed hundreds of suspension bushings in multiple applications as well as pressed countless wheel bearings, ball joints, balance shaft bearings inside of engine blocks, etc. The equiptment i have access to (hydro press, snapon press tools) are more than sufficient to do this job properly and i have more than enough experience to install your special bushings properly. Like i said the install was VERY easy. The bushings/shells pressed in w/ ease and required barely any pressure for the press fit, which i believe to be because of the soft outer shell. You should know that if something requires so little force to be pressfit it will require little force to be moved, which is exactly what happened.
You say there is no tq in this application to rotate the bushings. I as well as others disagree. The suspensions vertical travel alone is placing a tq load on the bushing. The track bar not only sees horizonal forces, it also sees limited vertical rotation as well which is where the tq comes from.
You say you have plenty of trucks running these bushings w/o incident, I dont believe you. Maybee you have success w/ the non-offset bushings, but i dont believe that you have plenty of trucks running the offset versions successfully.
When i look at your website i see some things that bother me. I see poor welds on cheap materials such as angle steel used for your ladder bar brackets. I see a hardware store plumbing contraption which i wouldnt even want under my kitchen sink much less under the hood of my truck. And i see a bunch of scientific bs that doesnt mean much to anyone other than yourself.
IMO you throw a bunch of materials together by whatever means you have at hand and call it fabricating. If you are having success coodos to you but i have tried one of your products and have had it fail. I made this thread to make people aware there are better ways to remedy a track bar issue and that is all it was intended for. Imagine if i had experienced dw due to your product while driving down the hwy w/ my wife and kids in the truck. I wouldnt be sitting here typing, I would voice my concerns to you in person.
If you want to consider yourself a fabricator thats fine w/ me, i dont care who you are or what you do. But this time it affected me personaly and i am voicing my experience here for others to take note of. Take it for what its worth.
09-14-2008, 11:10 AM
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As you say, he offered to refund your money or take care of the situation and you refused.... I think you have no business to continue a thread like this. There is no need to flame someone like this.
09-14-2008, 11:33 AM
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Hello Ghost Ram,
I can understand that you are upset with a product but these comments
"When i look at your website i see some things that bother me. I see poor welds on cheap materials such as angle steel used for your ladder bar brackets. I see a hardware store plumbing contraption which i wouldnt even want under my kitchen sink much less under the hood of my truck. And i see a bunch of scientific bs that doesnt mean much to anyone other than yourself.
IMO you throw a bunch of materials together by whatever means you have at hand and call it fabricating. "
Are purely an attack at items that you did not experience any loss/failure with. That is a cheap shot and off topic.
Damon
I can understand that you are upset with a product but these comments
"When i look at your website i see some things that bother me. I see poor welds on cheap materials such as angle steel used for your ladder bar brackets. I see a hardware store plumbing contraption which i wouldnt even want under my kitchen sink much less under the hood of my truck. And i see a bunch of scientific bs that doesnt mean much to anyone other than yourself.
IMO you throw a bunch of materials together by whatever means you have at hand and call it fabricating. "
Are purely an attack at items that you did not experience any loss/failure with. That is a cheap shot and off topic.
Damon
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09-14-2008, 11:37 AM
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you must have misunderstood. i never said he offered to refund my money or take car of the situation.
he in fact never once offered a refund, after speaking w/ him and explaining the circumstances i simply told him i am not after a refund. i very seriously doubt he would have offered me a refund anyway. and as far as him taking care of the situation, he did ask me if i would sell him my track bar and i said sure. he then asked how much i wanted for it and i told him it wouldnt be worth my time to ship it to him unless i could make 100 bucks from it. if i remember correctly he told me he didnt want to spend that much and that is when i reliized if 100 bucks is too much for him to give me for a track bar w/ his bushings in it then there is no way he would be offering me a refund. I believe that is how the conversation went and i do have the pm's to go back and look through after im done typing this.
Chrleb1, i do in fact have every right to let the public know about a bad product on the market that i have had experience with. I am in no way lying or bending the truth. I purchased his product, i could plainly see the poor craftsmanship that went into his product, and i made the mistake of taking his word that the product would work, when infact it did NOT.
I guess you could go as far as to say i am as much to blame as he is since i should have known better than to use an obviously poorly designed/constructed product. I guess you could even say i was neglectfull in failing to recognize the risks involved in using such a product. Luckily no one was injured and there was no property damage caused by this faulty product.
i will go back through the pm's now and see if there is anything i left out.
he in fact never once offered a refund, after speaking w/ him and explaining the circumstances i simply told him i am not after a refund. i very seriously doubt he would have offered me a refund anyway. and as far as him taking care of the situation, he did ask me if i would sell him my track bar and i said sure. he then asked how much i wanted for it and i told him it wouldnt be worth my time to ship it to him unless i could make 100 bucks from it. if i remember correctly he told me he didnt want to spend that much and that is when i reliized if 100 bucks is too much for him to give me for a track bar w/ his bushings in it then there is no way he would be offering me a refund. I believe that is how the conversation went and i do have the pm's to go back and look through after im done typing this.
Chrleb1, i do in fact have every right to let the public know about a bad product on the market that i have had experience with. I am in no way lying or bending the truth. I purchased his product, i could plainly see the poor craftsmanship that went into his product, and i made the mistake of taking his word that the product would work, when infact it did NOT.
I guess you could go as far as to say i am as much to blame as he is since i should have known better than to use an obviously poorly designed/constructed product. I guess you could even say i was neglectfull in failing to recognize the risks involved in using such a product. Luckily no one was injured and there was no property damage caused by this faulty product.
i will go back through the pm's now and see if there is anything i left out.
09-14-2008, 11:50 AM
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I'd like to read more about all these offset failures, this is maybe the largest diesel forum on internet, and I can't find any other threads to read about. If I am wrong, point me in the right direction. Maybe you feel better anyway now after whining so much and insulting the man because of his vocabulary?What more can you ask from a company than a refund of your money, I guess this was just a PSA (public service announcement)?
09-14-2008, 11:53 AM
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you must have misunderstood. i never said he offered to refund my money or take car of the situation.
he in fact never once offered a refund, after speaking w/ him and explaining the circumstances i simply told him i am not after a refund. i very seriously doubt he would have offered me a refund anyway. and as far as him taking care of the situation, he did ask me if i would sell him my track bar and i said sure. he then asked how much i wanted for it and i told him it wouldnt be worth my time to ship it to him unless i could make 100 bucks from it. if i remember correctly he told me he didnt want to spend that much and that is when i reliized if 100 bucks is too much for him to give me for a track bar w/ his bushings in it then there is no way he would be offering me a refund. I believe that is how the conversation went and i do have the pm's to go back and look through after im done typing this.
Chrleb1, i do in fact have every right to let the public know about a bad product on the market that i have had experience with. I am in no way lying or bending the truth. I purchased his product, i could plainly see the poor craftsmanship that went into his product, and i made the mistake of taking his word that the product would work, when infact it did NOT.
I guess you could go as far as to say i am as much to blame as he is since i should have known better than to use an obviously poorly designed/constructed product. I guess you could even say i was neglectfull in failing to recognize the risks involved in using such a product. Luckily no one was injured and there was no property damage caused by this faulty product.
i will go back through the pm's now and see if there is anything i left out.
he in fact never once offered a refund, after speaking w/ him and explaining the circumstances i simply told him i am not after a refund. i very seriously doubt he would have offered me a refund anyway. and as far as him taking care of the situation, he did ask me if i would sell him my track bar and i said sure. he then asked how much i wanted for it and i told him it wouldnt be worth my time to ship it to him unless i could make 100 bucks from it. if i remember correctly he told me he didnt want to spend that much and that is when i reliized if 100 bucks is too much for him to give me for a track bar w/ his bushings in it then there is no way he would be offering me a refund. I believe that is how the conversation went and i do have the pm's to go back and look through after im done typing this.
Chrleb1, i do in fact have every right to let the public know about a bad product on the market that i have had experience with. I am in no way lying or bending the truth. I purchased his product, i could plainly see the poor craftsmanship that went into his product, and i made the mistake of taking his word that the product would work, when infact it did NOT.
I guess you could go as far as to say i am as much to blame as he is since i should have known better than to use an obviously poorly designed/constructed product. I guess you could even say i was neglectfull in failing to recognize the risks involved in using such a product. Luckily no one was injured and there was no property damage caused by this faulty product.
i will go back through the pm's now and see if there is anything i left out.
09-14-2008, 12:01 PM
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after reading through our pm's i found Lazarsmith did offer to buy my trackbar for a total of 100. including shuipping. I inturn told him the 70bucks i would make after shipping wasnt worth my time at the moment and he would have to wait until i find the time to order a new replacement and swap them out.
mopardamo, you are right. i probably shouldnt have given my opinion on other products offered by Lazarsmith w/o having first hand experience w/ them. But in all seriousness, when you can plainly see from pics on a website posted by the fabricator himself that obviously show poor workmanship and materials its kind of hard not to point it out. And like i said, i intended my first post to be my only post but since Lazarsmith wanted to point the finger of blaim toward me....well you know how it goes.
I would love for someone to speak up about their first hand experience w/ a product i am interested in purchasing. Because at the end of the day it could save me hundreds if not thousands of dollars if the product is not what it should be. I would think others who value their hard erned money would want the same. Ok so Lazarsmith says he has never had any other failed bushings. Thats fine, if you or anyone else wants to purchase a set then go for it by all means. I put the info out there so people can read it and do what they want w/ it. I had a part fail, i warned the public about it and offerd a great solution, and i feel i have done my part to help anyone else who could have potentialy had this problem down the road. Like i said, im lucky and happy my family didnt experience any ill effects from this while going down the hwy. you cant make everyone happy, it is imposible.
mopardamo, you are right. i probably shouldnt have given my opinion on other products offered by Lazarsmith w/o having first hand experience w/ them. But in all seriousness, when you can plainly see from pics on a website posted by the fabricator himself that obviously show poor workmanship and materials its kind of hard not to point it out. And like i said, i intended my first post to be my only post but since Lazarsmith wanted to point the finger of blaim toward me....well you know how it goes.
I would love for someone to speak up about their first hand experience w/ a product i am interested in purchasing. Because at the end of the day it could save me hundreds if not thousands of dollars if the product is not what it should be. I would think others who value their hard erned money would want the same. Ok so Lazarsmith says he has never had any other failed bushings. Thats fine, if you or anyone else wants to purchase a set then go for it by all means. I put the info out there so people can read it and do what they want w/ it. I had a part fail, i warned the public about it and offerd a great solution, and i feel i have done my part to help anyone else who could have potentialy had this problem down the road. Like i said, im lucky and happy my family didnt experience any ill effects from this while going down the hwy. you cant make everyone happy, it is imposible.
09-14-2008, 12:04 PM
#12
Fellas, I don't mind open discussion but I see little to gain by including insults in that discussion. State your concerns, feel free to include the facts but lets keep the "Personal Flaming" out of it.
Any complaints here should be about the product itself and not the man or how he talks.
Any complaints here should be about the product itself and not the man or how he talks.
09-14-2008, 12:06 PM
#13
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of course he will. thats the beauty of internet forums and their sponsors. you scratch my back and i will scratch yours. I do not feel i atacked him in anyway. nor did i make any false statements.
Im sure this thread will disapear soon enough because we all know we are little kids who need our hands held and our mouths washewd out w/ soap because we cant play nicely and get along w/ others over the internet.
09-14-2008, 12:11 PM
#14
of course he will. thats the beauty of internet forums and their sponsors. you scratch my back and i will scratch yours. I do not feel i atacked him in anyway. nor did i make any false statements.
Im sure this thread will disapear soon enough because we all know we are little kids who need our hands held and our mouths washewd out w/ soap because we cant play nicely and get along w/ others over the internet.
Im sure this thread will disapear soon enough because we all know we are little kids who need our hands held and our mouths washewd out w/ soap because we cant play nicely and get along w/ others over the internet.
If you feel you have been unfairly treated or that I defended Lazarsmith in a biased manner, (Not a sponsor by the way) then feel free to PM me at anytime and we will discuss it. If this thread is removed it will be your fault because you are unable to discuss an issue in an adult manner.
09-14-2008, 12:15 PM
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Larry, i had no intention of insulting anyone because of the way they talk. I am an average guy who talks w/ an average vocabulary. This guy uses alot of vocabulary which average people would niot understand. Basically adding more distraction to a discussion than what is needed.
its basically a way of making yourself look smarter than you actually are. No disrespect intended but im not buying it. Just take a look at the guys website and tell me what you think. I know i cannot be the only one who sees what this guy is doing, or at least i hope i am not.
If you want to end the discussion its fine w/ me. it wont affect my life in the least as i have already learned my lesson from dealing w/ Lazarsmith. I have no intention of making fun of the guy or slandering him. I feel as though i am simply stating the obvious, who knows maybee im wrong. Maybee this guy is some kind of genious like he makes himself sound. But my eyes tell me otherwise....
its basically a way of making yourself look smarter than you actually are. No disrespect intended but im not buying it. Just take a look at the guys website and tell me what you think. I know i cannot be the only one who sees what this guy is doing, or at least i hope i am not.
If you want to end the discussion its fine w/ me. it wont affect my life in the least as i have already learned my lesson from dealing w/ Lazarsmith. I have no intention of making fun of the guy or slandering him. I feel as though i am simply stating the obvious, who knows maybee im wrong. Maybee this guy is some kind of genious like he makes himself sound. But my eyes tell me otherwise....