Carli suspension report
10-15-2008, 09:19 PM
#46
Registered User
I would start with what many others have suggested here. Throw some weight in the rear. see if it helps. Start with 200-300lbs and go up to about 500lbs see what it does to your ride. Like you mentioned it might lower your MPG and cause more wear on you rbrakes, but if it makes it a bearable ride than it is well worth it. Problem solved. If you are not even willing to give that a shot, then to be honest it sounds like you are being a little hard headed. Once you see if the weight helps then you know your shocks can be valved differently and you can probably remove some springs from you full spring pack. It is just going to be some experimenting to get it right. Listen to what people have to say and try some of it and I am almost 100% sure yo will get acceptable results.
Add weight in rear loose MPG or add weight in rear and get acceptable ride. Sounds pretty cut and dry!
Add weight in rear loose MPG or add weight in rear and get acceptable ride. Sounds pretty cut and dry!
10-16-2008, 12:38 AM
#47
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F-150 doesnt have a solid front axle, which means it will ride better on that road. While your waiting to hear from Sage, add some weight to the back of your rig, lower PSI to 38,32 and see how that is.
10-16-2008, 02:26 AM
#48
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Mistakes can happen at the shock factory- I know for a fact they can mess up valve profiles. I also know its a bit of a hassle to pull them out to have them looked at, and unfortunately difficult to find a professional that is familiar enough with the system to know whats wrong.
I am yet to ride in a Performance 2.0 kit myself, but I have heard very high praises of the system from people whom I trust and very well qualified to say such praises.
I know your situation sucks and I know Sage Carli wouldn't want an irate customer throwing around some flak on the net if he could help it- but c'mon man: you're a 3 day drive away from them complaining about something VERY subjective when you've already admitted the ride has improved over stock. I think asking them to come out to you is a wee bit too much to ask, for any company. Im still blown away Bob Wagner agreed to that dyno match for the Smarty Jr. You're not going to see much of that in any aftermarket niche in any capacity.
Ask if you can have them revalved for an extremely smooth and compliant ride on street. Note that you will lose your offroad capabilities, however. They are setup for a balanced on-road/off-road ride as shipped from Carli.
My mom hates the way my truck rides (she says it doesnt ride as well as my dad's Chevy 1500- she's correct). She would have crapped her pants if she rode in it stock. My Thuren equipped truck rides SOFTER (my girlfriend's own observation) than my friend's Kore Recon equipped truck, and I have a rather aggressive off-road valving on my bigger 2.5" shocks. Valving goes a long way, man.
I assure you, Carli tests their stuff in Mexico, just south of Ensanada, often logging hundreds of miles a day while not seeing pavement, then logging hundreds more on pavement.
Aside from having your shocks inspected and the other recomendations of lower tire psi and extra bed weight, you might want to try to just flog your truck in the desert for an hour. The shims in the shock often need to be broken in before they find their groove and loosen up. Blast some trails as fast as you physically can without launching off a cliff and occassionally check the shock temps to make sure they're not boiling over.
If anything, you will KNOW right then and there where your money went.
But above all else, realize these are performance offroad suspension enhancements, not the holy-grail of street-ride kits.
If thats what you want, trade the truck in for a 1500.
I am yet to ride in a Performance 2.0 kit myself, but I have heard very high praises of the system from people whom I trust and very well qualified to say such praises.
I know your situation sucks and I know Sage Carli wouldn't want an irate customer throwing around some flak on the net if he could help it- but c'mon man: you're a 3 day drive away from them complaining about something VERY subjective when you've already admitted the ride has improved over stock. I think asking them to come out to you is a wee bit too much to ask, for any company. Im still blown away Bob Wagner agreed to that dyno match for the Smarty Jr. You're not going to see much of that in any aftermarket niche in any capacity.
Ask if you can have them revalved for an extremely smooth and compliant ride on street. Note that you will lose your offroad capabilities, however. They are setup for a balanced on-road/off-road ride as shipped from Carli.
My mom hates the way my truck rides (she says it doesnt ride as well as my dad's Chevy 1500- she's correct). She would have crapped her pants if she rode in it stock. My Thuren equipped truck rides SOFTER (my girlfriend's own observation) than my friend's Kore Recon equipped truck, and I have a rather aggressive off-road valving on my bigger 2.5" shocks. Valving goes a long way, man.
I assure you, Carli tests their stuff in Mexico, just south of Ensanada, often logging hundreds of miles a day while not seeing pavement, then logging hundreds more on pavement.
Aside from having your shocks inspected and the other recomendations of lower tire psi and extra bed weight, you might want to try to just flog your truck in the desert for an hour. The shims in the shock often need to be broken in before they find their groove and loosen up. Blast some trails as fast as you physically can without launching off a cliff and occassionally check the shock temps to make sure they're not boiling over.
If anything, you will KNOW right then and there where your money went.
But above all else, realize these are performance offroad suspension enhancements, not the holy-grail of street-ride kits.
If thats what you want, trade the truck in for a 1500.
10-16-2008, 02:47 AM
#49
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Also, double check the nitrogen pressure in the shocks with a different shop that knows what they are doing and have the proper tools. Its possible the shop dumped the initial charge of N2 to easily fit the shocks, then didn't properly re-charge them to their specified pressure. It takes more than just a "schraeder equipped fitting" and pressure source.........
10-16-2008, 09:01 AM
#50
It's my pot and I'll stir it if I want to. If you're not careful, I'll stir your's as well!
Thread Starter
I would start with what many others have suggested here. Throw some weight in the rear. see if it helps. Start with 200-300lbs and go up to about 500lbs see what it does to your ride. Like you mentioned it might lower your MPG and cause more wear on you rbrakes, but if it makes it a bearable ride than it is well worth it. Problem solved. If you are not even willing to give that a shot, then to be honest it sounds like you are being a little hard headed. Once you see if the weight helps then you know your shocks can be valved differently and you can probably remove some springs from you full spring pack. It is just going to be some experimenting to get it right. Listen to what people have to say and try some of it and I am almost 100% sure yo will get acceptable results.
Add weight in rear loose MPG or add weight in rear and get acceptable ride. Sounds pretty cut and dry!
Add weight in rear loose MPG or add weight in rear and get acceptable ride. Sounds pretty cut and dry!
10-16-2008, 10:23 AM
#51
It's my pot and I'll stir it if I want to. If you're not careful, I'll stir your's as well!
Thread Starter
Mistakes can happen at the shock factory- I know for a fact they can mess up valve profiles. I also know its a bit of a hassle to pull them out to have them looked at, and unfortunately difficult to find a professional that is familiar enough with the system to know whats wrong.
I am yet to ride in a Performance 2.0 kit myself, but I have heard very high praises of the system from people whom I trust and very well qualified to say such praises.
I know your situation sucks and I know Sage Carli wouldn't want an irate customer throwing around some flak on the net if he could help it- but c'mon man: you're a 3 day drive away from them complaining about something VERY subjective when you've already admitted the ride has improved over stock. I think asking them to come out to you is a wee bit too much to ask, for any company. Im still blown away Bob Wagner agreed to that dyno match for the Smarty Jr. You're not going to see much of that in any aftermarket niche in any capacity.
Ask if you can have them revalved for an extremely smooth and compliant ride on street. Note that you will lose your offroad capabilities, however. They are setup for a balanced on-road/off-road ride as shipped from Carli.
My mom hates the way my truck rides (she says it doesnt ride as well as my dad's Chevy 1500- she's correct). She would have crapped her pants if she rode in it stock. My Thuren equipped truck rides SOFTER (my girlfriend's own observation) than my friend's Kore Recon equipped truck, and I have a rather aggressive off-road valving on my bigger 2.5" shocks. Valving goes a long way, man.
I assure you, Carli tests their stuff in Mexico, just south of Ensanada, often logging hundreds of miles a day while not seeing pavement, then logging hundreds more on pavement.
Aside from having your shocks inspected and the other recomendations of lower tire psi and extra bed weight, you might want to try to just flog your truck in the desert for an hour. The shims in the shock often need to be broken in before they find their groove and loosen up. Blast some trails as fast as you physically can without launching off a cliff and occassionally check the shock temps to make sure they're not boiling over.
If anything, you will KNOW right then and there where your money went.
But above all else, realize these are performance offroad suspension enhancements, not the holy-grail of street-ride kits.
If thats what you want, trade the truck in for a 1500.
I am yet to ride in a Performance 2.0 kit myself, but I have heard very high praises of the system from people whom I trust and very well qualified to say such praises.
I know your situation sucks and I know Sage Carli wouldn't want an irate customer throwing around some flak on the net if he could help it- but c'mon man: you're a 3 day drive away from them complaining about something VERY subjective when you've already admitted the ride has improved over stock. I think asking them to come out to you is a wee bit too much to ask, for any company. Im still blown away Bob Wagner agreed to that dyno match for the Smarty Jr. You're not going to see much of that in any aftermarket niche in any capacity.
Ask if you can have them revalved for an extremely smooth and compliant ride on street. Note that you will lose your offroad capabilities, however. They are setup for a balanced on-road/off-road ride as shipped from Carli.
My mom hates the way my truck rides (she says it doesnt ride as well as my dad's Chevy 1500- she's correct). She would have crapped her pants if she rode in it stock. My Thuren equipped truck rides SOFTER (my girlfriend's own observation) than my friend's Kore Recon equipped truck, and I have a rather aggressive off-road valving on my bigger 2.5" shocks. Valving goes a long way, man.
I assure you, Carli tests their stuff in Mexico, just south of Ensanada, often logging hundreds of miles a day while not seeing pavement, then logging hundreds more on pavement.
Aside from having your shocks inspected and the other recomendations of lower tire psi and extra bed weight, you might want to try to just flog your truck in the desert for an hour. The shims in the shock often need to be broken in before they find their groove and loosen up. Blast some trails as fast as you physically can without launching off a cliff and occassionally check the shock temps to make sure they're not boiling over.
If anything, you will KNOW right then and there where your money went.
But above all else, realize these are performance offroad suspension enhancements, not the holy-grail of street-ride kits.
If thats what you want, trade the truck in for a 1500.
I am quite capable of doing any rework myself, but not sure if I want to start revalving new shocks.
One thing I did discover from Carli was the nitrogen pressure requirements. I experimented with different pressures and did not find any real difference in ride comfort. Right now I have them pressurized to their recommended 200 psi. In case anyone asks, this was set using a closed system and a calibrated gauge and I did it myself. The nitrogen was a story in itself. Nitrogen is readily available, but nobody has any over 120 psi. I had to borrow a cylinder and gauge, take it home and do it myself. Fortunately in my toolbox I had the equipment to make up a closed system.
10-16-2008, 03:33 PM
#52
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It sounds like you know whats going on and a pretty smart chap. I think then its either these two scenarios: the shocks are improperly valved or the kit can't live up to what you expected from it.
Good thing is you chose a kit that you can revalve, the Bilstein 5100's and other stock style shocks cant be tuned down the road like your 7100's.
Yank them and revalve them supersoft, yank it all and sell it, or keep it as is and be completely miserable with your experience.
Good luck, mang.
Good thing is you chose a kit that you can revalve, the Bilstein 5100's and other stock style shocks cant be tuned down the road like your 7100's.
Yank them and revalve them supersoft, yank it all and sell it, or keep it as is and be completely miserable with your experience.
Good luck, mang.
10-16-2008, 05:26 PM
#53
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Stan
You will have to forgive me for coming into this so late. Just got back from 5 days in Washington visiting a sick relative.
I am really kind of confused about the things you are saying about the company. I went through the 37 emails that you have sent since 6/23/08 to current and could not find anything which resembled poor customer service? We tried to answer everyone of them in a timely and professional manner. If I remember correctly, the shop you chose was not the most competent place to get your suspension done. I remember the first call they made to the shop was that they tried to put the leaf springs in backwards. The second call to the shop they put the rear shocks on the front of the truck and the front shocks on the rear of the truck. When you left the shop the shocks were not properly charged with nitrogen. So with this in mind we tried to diagnose to the best of our abilities what was REALLY going on with your truck. Without actually being able to see the truck or drive the truck it is not the easiest task. Like others have stated above, it might be as simple as the shock valving being wrong. We have not had a complaint on the Performance 2.0 prior to this. Only praise.
Stan, instead of dragging this out on the internet, why don't you email me here carlisuspension@sbcglobal.net and I will personally see to it that this matter gets resolved.
You will have to forgive me for coming into this so late. Just got back from 5 days in Washington visiting a sick relative.
I am really kind of confused about the things you are saying about the company. I went through the 37 emails that you have sent since 6/23/08 to current and could not find anything which resembled poor customer service? We tried to answer everyone of them in a timely and professional manner. If I remember correctly, the shop you chose was not the most competent place to get your suspension done. I remember the first call they made to the shop was that they tried to put the leaf springs in backwards. The second call to the shop they put the rear shocks on the front of the truck and the front shocks on the rear of the truck. When you left the shop the shocks were not properly charged with nitrogen. So with this in mind we tried to diagnose to the best of our abilities what was REALLY going on with your truck. Without actually being able to see the truck or drive the truck it is not the easiest task. Like others have stated above, it might be as simple as the shock valving being wrong. We have not had a complaint on the Performance 2.0 prior to this. Only praise.
Stan, instead of dragging this out on the internet, why don't you email me here carlisuspension@sbcglobal.net and I will personally see to it that this matter gets resolved.
10-16-2008, 05:42 PM
#55
It's my pot and I'll stir it if I want to. If you're not careful, I'll stir your's as well!
Thread Starter
Great. Thanks so much for jumping in. By coincidence I have just sealed a letter to you personally and was going to drop it in the mail tomorrow.
Expect an email from me soon.
Expect an email from me soon.
Stan
You will have to forgive me for coming into this so late. Just got back from 5 days in Washington visiting a sick relative.
I am really kind of confused about the things you are saying about the company. I went through the 37 emails that you have sent since 6/23/08 to current and could not find anything which resembled poor customer service? We tried to answer everyone of them in a timely and professional manner. If I remember correctly, the shop you chose was not the most competent place to get your suspension done. I remember the first call they made to the shop was that they tried to put the leaf springs in backwards. The second call to the shop they put the rear shocks on the front of the truck and the front shocks on the rear of the truck. When you left the shop the shocks were not properly charged with nitrogen. So with this in mind we tried to diagnose to the best of our abilities what was REALLY going on with your truck. Without actually being able to see the truck or drive the truck it is not the easiest task. Like others have stated above, it might be as simple as the shock valving being wrong. We have not had a complaint on the Performance 2.0 prior to this. Only praise.
Stan, instead of dragging this out on the internet, why don't you email me here carlisuspension@sbcglobal.net and I will personally see to it that this matter gets resolved.
You will have to forgive me for coming into this so late. Just got back from 5 days in Washington visiting a sick relative.
I am really kind of confused about the things you are saying about the company. I went through the 37 emails that you have sent since 6/23/08 to current and could not find anything which resembled poor customer service? We tried to answer everyone of them in a timely and professional manner. If I remember correctly, the shop you chose was not the most competent place to get your suspension done. I remember the first call they made to the shop was that they tried to put the leaf springs in backwards. The second call to the shop they put the rear shocks on the front of the truck and the front shocks on the rear of the truck. When you left the shop the shocks were not properly charged with nitrogen. So with this in mind we tried to diagnose to the best of our abilities what was REALLY going on with your truck. Without actually being able to see the truck or drive the truck it is not the easiest task. Like others have stated above, it might be as simple as the shock valving being wrong. We have not had a complaint on the Performance 2.0 prior to this. Only praise.
Stan, instead of dragging this out on the internet, why don't you email me here carlisuspension@sbcglobal.net and I will personally see to it that this matter gets resolved.
10-17-2008, 12:19 AM
#56
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Love The Ride!!
DUDE! i have the 2.5 king shocks with whatever they gave me valving. I initially put the kit on in colorado springs CO at 5200ft elevation. i thought the ride was on the stiff side but the flex off road was rolling with the Jeeps!(trail width providing)
......i am now stationed in california and take my truck up to the mountains on fire roads and trails to get to my old fishings spots. i was chasing a quad on a fire road(loose rocks/ruts/washouts etc) and keeping up.... with six dudes in the truck, dog and gear in bed with a half tank of gas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i think the kit needed to be "broke in"/hammered on to get loose cause the altitude is about the same when i am in the sierras. my buddies where clinching the "OH SHIZER" bars in the cab and couldnt believe that the truck would float over the stuff that it did. props to sage and the guys in the R&D dept over there. i am fully satisfied with my $$'s invested into something that allows me to drive it like i stold it.
ps. first post in a hell of a long time.
......i am now stationed in california and take my truck up to the mountains on fire roads and trails to get to my old fishings spots. i was chasing a quad on a fire road(loose rocks/ruts/washouts etc) and keeping up.... with six dudes in the truck, dog and gear in bed with a half tank of gas!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i think the kit needed to be "broke in"/hammered on to get loose cause the altitude is about the same when i am in the sierras. my buddies where clinching the "OH SHIZER" bars in the cab and couldnt believe that the truck would float over the stuff that it did. props to sage and the guys in the R&D dept over there. i am fully satisfied with my $$'s invested into something that allows me to drive it like i stold it. ps. first post in a hell of a long time.
01-21-2009, 12:08 PM
#57
It's my pot and I'll stir it if I want to. If you're not careful, I'll stir your's as well!
Thread Starter
UPDATE
Sage Carli offered to send me a new set of rear shocks that were valved differently. All I had to do was pay for shipping, which is fair enough.
I installed the new shocks and they did appear to balance the front and rear of the truck a bit better. Still not happy with the way the truck kicks my rear on some road conditions with no load, but also do acknowledge that this is a heavy duty truck and not a Caddy, or an Infiniti.
Bottom line is that I think that this is probably as good as it gets for this truck. Yes, his suspension has made a difference on some road conditions and it is a fair bit smoother, but it is still just a truck! Still glad I installed my air suspension seats as they made a huge difference, but my poor rear seat passengers still suffer.
Would I go to the expense of a mod like this if I had to do it again? That is difficult to answer. If I was using this truck in the states or Canada on the reasonably consistant roads you have there, well, maybe. For the wide range of road conditions that I daily encounter where I live, knowing what I know now, it probably can't be justified. Perhaps airbags at the front and a four link suspension at the rear would work better, but who knows?
For you guys that are happy with your Carli suspension, that is great, but don't flame me until you bring your truck here and drive on the same roads I drive on daily.
Sage Carli offered to send me a new set of rear shocks that were valved differently. All I had to do was pay for shipping, which is fair enough.
I installed the new shocks and they did appear to balance the front and rear of the truck a bit better. Still not happy with the way the truck kicks my rear on some road conditions with no load, but also do acknowledge that this is a heavy duty truck and not a Caddy, or an Infiniti.
Bottom line is that I think that this is probably as good as it gets for this truck. Yes, his suspension has made a difference on some road conditions and it is a fair bit smoother, but it is still just a truck! Still glad I installed my air suspension seats as they made a huge difference, but my poor rear seat passengers still suffer.
Would I go to the expense of a mod like this if I had to do it again? That is difficult to answer. If I was using this truck in the states or Canada on the reasonably consistant roads you have there, well, maybe. For the wide range of road conditions that I daily encounter where I live, knowing what I know now, it probably can't be justified. Perhaps airbags at the front and a four link suspension at the rear would work better, but who knows?
For you guys that are happy with your Carli suspension, that is great, but don't flame me until you bring your truck here and drive on the same roads I drive on daily.
01-21-2009, 12:17 PM
#58
DTR 1st Sergeant
I still have stock suspension and no real plans to change that any time soon. I also have no experience with any of the aftermarket suspension other than a skyjacker 4" kit I installed myself on a 92 Bronco which was very nice.
Having said that, and based upon this thread and the response by Mr. Carli, his will be the first kit I look at when that time comes. There is no substitute for good customer service. Don Thurn also falls into this catagory...
But, I will be looking at an air/spring combo or full air when that time does come. I just don't think, in my experience anyway, that steel springs, whether coil or leaf, can ever compare to a good air system... good shocks make all the difference too... can you say King?
Having said that, and based upon this thread and the response by Mr. Carli, his will be the first kit I look at when that time comes. There is no substitute for good customer service. Don Thurn also falls into this catagory...
But, I will be looking at an air/spring combo or full air when that time does come. I just don't think, in my experience anyway, that steel springs, whether coil or leaf, can ever compare to a good air system... good shocks make all the difference too... can you say King?
01-21-2009, 09:46 PM
#59
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You do have to take into consideration that just driving the truck on concrete and cobblestone isnt going to break in springs very well regardless of the valving in the shocks. Go offroad. Go over bumps and let the springs cycle. you'd be surprised at the difference in ride after a few trips off road. on my toyota rock crawler, i installed brand new springs when i put 1 tons under it. they were incredibly stiff at first installation. After only 2 trips out of letting the springs cycle and travel they have softened up nicely and even at 40 miles an hour on washboard with 40 inch swampers it rides surprisingly well. I know you said you didnt want off road performance out of your suspension, but give it a shot. especially since you spent the money to put a rod armor and a winch on a street truck.
Carli Suspension
