Snoxracer

I don't know even where to start, do I start by saying I have a 05 Dodge Ram Dually 4x4 with $20 plus in modifications alone that I want to sell?
Well I don't really want to sell it but I am tired of the thing being broke, and tired of wrenching on it. I haven't even tried to abuse the thing yet and I still have problems.

Last saturday afternoon I was heading home from a job and went to pass a car doing 50 mph, I kicked it down and instantly heard a pop. I didn't noticed and loss of power or anything, so I let off and everything seemed fine. I thought maybe it was a pop-off valve (on intake) letting go (set at 60psi) but it wasn't. I was less than a mile from my house so I pulled it in my drive and popped the hood to see if I could see anything. I didn't notice anything but could smell antifreeze, so I stuck my head down buy the tail pipe and didn't notice any smell from the tailpipe. But I then saw coolant running down the back of the motor. My first thought was I blew a frost plug out the back of the head, but after further inspection, I could see the fluid coming out from between the head and the block.

So needless to say I am very displeased with my $12k motor (thats just the motor work), that has maybe 6500 miles on it.

When it blew out it never lost any power, so I'm guessing the the fire rings held I just don't know why the gasket let loose? I was wondering if the fire rings could possibly be not letting the head clamp down on the gasket all the way? And if the rings were holding, where would the pressure be coming form to blow out the gasket anyway? Coolant?

The block was ringed and the motor has 14mm head studs in it, so I thought a head gasket would be the least of my worries.

Well I guess its back to having a truck down and out again? Yee Ha!! My next truck will be stock!

Dustin

OldSmokey

Wow, man sorry to here that. Have you talked to Scheids yet?

BigErksG2

thats nuts! did you groove the head for the orings?

no limit

I hate to say this but we just finished fixing an 04 that was fire ringed and it did the same thing blew the gasket and mixed oil and coolant no external leaks .We just finished it last night ,seems like the cooling system has alot of pressure from factory.We had the grooves cut a touch deeper this time to get more crush on the gasket.Truck has twin everything also.

XLR8R

Few of us realize how high the HPCR coolant system pressure can go, especially when you turn up the wick.

This solution has been working well for us: http://lazarsmith.com/BOE.html

It even adds a couple quarts to system capacity!

Timinva

Dustin, how many re torks have you done? Have any been recent? Tim

abc4yew

For those running over 3000rpm at more than stock power a coolant pressure blowoff is a necessity. Tapping a Watts adjustable relief valve into the thermastat elbow and relieving it to a over capacity tank that dumps back to the coolant system is a start. Additional protection could be had by pulling a freeze plug and putting in a relief valve there. Engines that have advanced timing, high rpm ability, and very steep hp/tq ramps are most susceptible.

ARP's or A-1's of all sizes need to be retorqued more frequently than you'd ever want or expect. If your making big power and boost they are constantly being stretched and relieved.

When I blew my first headgasket (2nd time was when the piston ring went out the top turbo in an aluminum plasma stream)....the studs had torque settings all over the map despite being retorqued 3 weeks earlier...(20 passes and 2000 miles earlier though)

XLR8R's product looks interesting!!! ks

blownsmoke2

Dustin did you try retorqing head to see if you could get anythingon it? When I thought I was having head gasket problems before Brad (Schied)told me to retorque head first. Also like I've found out afterward firerings are only good for a year or so. When I took my head off you wouldn't believe the cheesy head gasket you get but I guess the firerings do all of the hard work. Good luck man, I feel your pain.

Ron

Howling

As no limit stated we just got done fixing a blown head gasket on a 04(fire ringed head) .We torqued the ARP head studs(12mm) 3 times in certain increments to reach 125 ft.lbs.,then went over again 3 times at 125 ft.lbs. then started engine brought it up to temp ripped apart while warm and re torqued.We were able to get at least 1-1 1/2 turns out of each stud.We are going to run the truck for a 1000 miles stock and recheck the studs.

It sucks fixing but when you have the truck running right it is all worth it in the end.Heck on our race truck we our on our 4th motor talk about $$$.

Good Luck
Eric

Snoxracer

Thanks for the replys and the heads up on the pop-off systems.

I know that with some of the pulling motors that are turning 4k plus rpms that they are modifing the water pumps. But I honestly can say that i have never really even ran this thing hard. Scheid had done some dyno runs with it, but that be the hardest it had ever been turned

When the motor was new, and the install was complete, I was told from Scheid's (Brad) to plug in the block heater for 4-5 hours and retorque the head. So I did, and yes I was surprised at how muched they torque with just the block heater. Then I started the truck and ran it up to temp (also ran higher rpm to break in cam) and then immediately shut off and pulled valve cover and injector harness plate off and retorqued again. And saw quite a bit more after this. Then I checked it again sometime after that, because I was in there changing injectors. So after doing that I thought that I was doing good?

So are you guys saying that firerings are not good for long term? Is there something better now or are they just not a good thing for daily drivers?

I have called Dan Scheid and he has been great in finding a solution to getting it fixed and back on the road. He actually knows a guy up in my area that he'd trust to fix it, so I am glad for that, saves me a long haul out to Indiana. Plus it is a guy that I have had do some work for me in the past, I just didn't know that they knew each other.

Thanks again guys for they replys!
Dustin

PourinDiesel

Coolant pressure has nothing to do with your headgasket blowing in my opinion.
Two totally different subjects.

You have blown through your fire rings and the compression has cut the gasket (or found a way over) hence coolant pouring out of your engine.

I have blown freeze plugs but when properly fixed they are good to go for most of us out there.

Floor It

I agree Justin!!

John

WUnderwood

I dont think fire rings are good for daily drivers, there are a lot of variables involved. to each his own, though

Snoxracer

So your saying that I blew compression past my fire rings at only 55psi of boost? I thought that these things were good for major boost pressures? If I blew a fire ring wouldn't the truck have a miss? And what are these guys talking about a coolant relief valve for?

lmills

I have never been a fan of the fire rings for daily drivers. I have a friend that helps me out a lot that has them. He has had really good luck with them, but most complain about them. And I would definitely have to agree with Justin and John on this. I have never heard of a headgasket blowing from coolant pressure. I do guess though that it is possible that if the grooves were not cut properly for the firerings that you may not have had the proper clampload on the gasket to keep the coolant passages sealed. Man, this is why I will stay with my off the shelf OEM gasket on mine.