View Poll Results: Single turbo or twin turbo?
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll
Bigger single Turbo or Twin Turbo
07-31-2006 | 01:59 PM
#61
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Joined: Nov 2005
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From: New Braunfels, TX
[QUOTE=omaharam]
If you want to run 13's and do very minor tranny mods you WILL break something and will have no warrenty to cover it. Drag racing PERIOD will break your tranny, even without any programmer or chip of any kind.
That depends on how you treat it. I could make a 1000 runs on a stock truck and never break the tranny. For that matter, I'm confident I could make a 1000 runs on my truck and not break the tranny.
You're talking about putting the most aggressive and safety feature free box there is. Your truck will be in the 13's, but it won't be reliable anymore.
You can be in the high 13s and and have a reliable truck. I haven't had a single problem with mine. It's basically 14 flat, but if I went back to shorter tires I'd be in the 13s. I could, and plan, to do a little more and still have reliability. That's the beauty of these trucks. You don't have to build the crap out of the engine to go 13s like an old V8 with a huge cam. You can stack a couple boxes and then turn them down or off for daily driving.
Roommate had an edge juce/attitude for about 5k and he tore his TQ apart in about 2k mi. The TST is WAY more agressive than the juice.
I had my juice/att on for 12k before I upgraded the TC. Now, I will say that it was slipping a little, and I would absolutely agree that a TC should be before any power adders, but again, 2k mile destruction all comes down to how you treat the truck.
Whatever you do, you need to make sure you won't run into problems by fixing all weak points in your drivetrain, and that costs money. If you get your HP up to run 13's, and don't upgrade the tranny correctly, you will end up upgrading it because your TC will be useless and so will your clutches inside the tranny, and if you launch in 4x4 your intermediate and output shafts are in danger.
I agree with needing a TC/VB to go 13s. I also agree with the 4WD lauches (under boost). The stock internal clutch packs, however, will hold more than 500hp, it has been proven.
Cheap dragracing diesels are a myth. Parts cost money. Racing breaks parts. Racing costs money.
Depends on how fast you want to go. Like I said, I make 1000 16 second passes on a stock truck and never hurt a thing.
QUOTE]
Wow, I just learned a little. Had no idea the stock clutches could take 500hp. I was really talking about what viking wanted to do. I know you could keep the truck in good shape if you know what you are doing, but my roommate diddn't know and he needs a TC because of it. Learned the hard way. 16 sec passes are easy with a stock truck driven correctly, but as soon as you try that 4wd launch you are getting into a trouble zone. Driving experience is obviously a huge factor. That and knowledge about our trucks. He could very well make a high 13 truck and run it many times without breaking something, but he also said 13's or 12's. To me that means low 13's and depending on launch, and experience there is always a possibility that somthing could break. So I say play it safe.
You asked about egt reduction, have you considered water/meth? Cheaper than a new turbo and about 40-70hp. Since you seem to know about the trannies, I'm looking to get a truck with 75k on it. Do you think the clutches are still in good condition or would they need a rebuild?
Originally Posted by PanteraGSTK
If you want to run 13's and do very minor tranny mods you WILL break something and will have no warrenty to cover it. Drag racing PERIOD will break your tranny, even without any programmer or chip of any kind.
That depends on how you treat it. I could make a 1000 runs on a stock truck and never break the tranny. For that matter, I'm confident I could make a 1000 runs on my truck and not break the tranny.
You're talking about putting the most aggressive and safety feature free box there is. Your truck will be in the 13's, but it won't be reliable anymore.
You can be in the high 13s and and have a reliable truck. I haven't had a single problem with mine. It's basically 14 flat, but if I went back to shorter tires I'd be in the 13s. I could, and plan, to do a little more and still have reliability. That's the beauty of these trucks. You don't have to build the crap out of the engine to go 13s like an old V8 with a huge cam. You can stack a couple boxes and then turn them down or off for daily driving.
Roommate had an edge juce/attitude for about 5k and he tore his TQ apart in about 2k mi. The TST is WAY more agressive than the juice.
I had my juice/att on for 12k before I upgraded the TC. Now, I will say that it was slipping a little, and I would absolutely agree that a TC should be before any power adders, but again, 2k mile destruction all comes down to how you treat the truck.
Whatever you do, you need to make sure you won't run into problems by fixing all weak points in your drivetrain, and that costs money. If you get your HP up to run 13's, and don't upgrade the tranny correctly, you will end up upgrading it because your TC will be useless and so will your clutches inside the tranny, and if you launch in 4x4 your intermediate and output shafts are in danger.
I agree with needing a TC/VB to go 13s. I also agree with the 4WD lauches (under boost). The stock internal clutch packs, however, will hold more than 500hp, it has been proven.
Cheap dragracing diesels are a myth. Parts cost money. Racing breaks parts. Racing costs money.
Depends on how fast you want to go. Like I said, I make 1000 16 second passes on a stock truck and never hurt a thing.
QUOTE]
You asked about egt reduction, have you considered water/meth? Cheaper than a new turbo and about 40-70hp. Since you seem to know about the trannies, I'm looking to get a truck with 75k on it. Do you think the clutches are still in good condition or would they need a rebuild?
07-31-2006 | 02:03 PM
#62
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 379
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From: New Braunfels, TX
[QUOTE=VikingDiesel]
ok, since we're in the TRANS subject, what is the least I can do/get away with if all I want is 13s? NO towing, NO sled pulling, NOT really intense drag racing at the strip, More like Highway off a roll runs from about 20mph or so and obviously street racing from a light. I dont have to break torque and if I do, maybe only like 10psi or somthing NOT harmful. It can also be a 2WD launch and NOT 4WD.
Can I just get away with new Torque Converter and Valve Body? considering what I told you and how I will be driving. This isnt like NON-STOP drag racing, more like an occasional thing, thats all.
Wouldnt the Torque converter also help my times considering my trans will shift faster? So will the TC and VB be just fine for me needs? I really dont want to spend a CRAP load of money considering I wont be taking the full advantage of it especially considering it costs $2k and up.
I've read that, depending on mileage, you can put a VB and TC in and support ~550hp. But thats just what people say on here, I'd talk to somebody that knows from experience. That should run about $1,600 from hts(they have a deal going on right now). If you don't hammer it in 4wd you should be good. Then fuel system, then turbo, then huge smile of satisfaction 
. My motto is do it right the first time so you only have to do it once.
Originally Posted by omaharam
ok, since we're in the TRANS subject, what is the least I can do/get away with if all I want is 13s? NO towing, NO sled pulling, NOT really intense drag racing at the strip, More like Highway off a roll runs from about 20mph or so and obviously street racing from a light. I dont have to break torque and if I do, maybe only like 10psi or somthing NOT harmful. It can also be a 2WD launch and NOT 4WD.
Can I just get away with new Torque Converter and Valve Body? considering what I told you and how I will be driving. This isnt like NON-STOP drag racing, more like an occasional thing, thats all.
Wouldnt the Torque converter also help my times considering my trans will shift faster? So will the TC and VB be just fine for me needs? I really dont want to spend a CRAP load of money considering I wont be taking the full advantage of it especially considering it costs $2k and up.
. My motto is do it right the first time so you only have to do it once.
07-31-2006 | 02:04 PM
#63
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,234
Likes: 1
From: Texas/Oklahoma Border
Originally Posted by VikingDiesel
... I mean, theres gotta be a single turbo out there that comes **** close to a TT setup.
Fact - All single turbos are a compromise. Get one that handles the EGT's from 500 hp.... and you will have much more lag than you have now!
The good news on big singles is, you get use to what you have...and learn how to drive around the lag.
But when you ask for a big single that spools like your stock turbo.... you are asking to defy the laws of physics! Only twins will spool like an HX-35 and cool like an HX 55!
RJ
07-31-2006 | 02:07 PM
#64
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From: Been deported back to Utah
Wow a stock clutch holding onto 500 hp, well I am not sure what horsepower I am running but my clutch lasted 426 miles. That was with no pulling yet just accelerating onto the highway.
07-31-2006 | 02:09 PM
#65
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,234
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From: Texas/Oklahoma Border
Originally Posted by omaharam
... The biggest reason I want a turbo is for egt reduction, the power is just an added bonus.
So if my main purpose is towing and egt reduction and not drag racing or sled pulling, is a single good enough for me? I would like to see a good 200 degree drop in egt but not have a spool problem when towing. Is this a realistic expectation?
So if my main purpose is towing and egt reduction and not drag racing or sled pulling, is a single good enough for me? I would like to see a good 200 degree drop in egt but not have a spool problem when towing. Is this a realistic expectation?
Your stock turbo, with a Juice just can't be fun?
Loose the 315's for better low end towing on an automatic ... JMO.
RJ
07-31-2006 | 02:19 PM
#66
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,452
Likes: 1
From: Nebraska
[QUOTE=VikingDiesel]
ok, since we're in the TRANS subject, what is the least I can do/get away with if all I want is 13s? NO towing, NO sled pulling, NOT really intense drag racing at the strip, More like Highway off a roll runs from about 20mph or so and obviously street racing from a light. I dont have to break torque and if I do, maybe only like 10psi or somthing NOT harmful. It can also be a 2WD launch and NOT 4WD.
Can I just get away with new Torque Converter and Valve Body? considering what I told you and how I will be driving. This isnt like NON-STOP drag racing, more like an occasional thing, thats all.
Wouldnt the Torque converter also help my times considering my trans will shift faster? So will the TC and VB be just fine for me needs? I really dont want to spend a CRAP load of money considering I wont be taking the full advantage of it especially considering it costs $2k and up.
Based on your above statements, a TC and VB are all you need. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SPEND $5000 FOR WHAT YOU WANT TO DO!!!! Look at my truck in my sig. In theory - that is based on manufacturer claims - I should be putting down 495hp. I'm guessing the dyno would tell me more like 450, but whatever. My point is that I do not have any issues with the tranny. It works great. I would recommend Goerend Brothers or HTS, and if HTS is running a special, it is an almost identical TC, so I'd say go for it.
Originally Posted by omaharam
ok, since we're in the TRANS subject, what is the least I can do/get away with if all I want is 13s? NO towing, NO sled pulling, NOT really intense drag racing at the strip, More like Highway off a roll runs from about 20mph or so and obviously street racing from a light. I dont have to break torque and if I do, maybe only like 10psi or somthing NOT harmful. It can also be a 2WD launch and NOT 4WD.
Can I just get away with new Torque Converter and Valve Body? considering what I told you and how I will be driving. This isnt like NON-STOP drag racing, more like an occasional thing, thats all.
Wouldnt the Torque converter also help my times considering my trans will shift faster? So will the TC and VB be just fine for me needs? I really dont want to spend a CRAP load of money considering I wont be taking the full advantage of it especially considering it costs $2k and up.
07-31-2006 | 02:28 PM
#67
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,452
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From: Nebraska
[QUOTE=PanteraGSTK]
I've read that, depending on mileage, you can put a VB and TC in and support ~550hp. But thats just what people say on here, I'd talk to somebody that knows from experience. That should run about $1,600 from hts(they have a deal going on right now). If you don't hammer it in 4wd you should be good. Then fuel system, then turbo, then huge smile of satisfaction . My motto is do it right the first time so you only have to do it once.
The Goerend TC/VB ONLY - i.e. stock internals - has been dyno proven to hold 650hp. I threw out the 500+ number because in all honesty the 650hp engine used for the dyno testing does not make the torque numbers that the Cummins will at 650hp. It is more in the neighborhood of where the Cummins will be for torque around 500-550hp. Once you do a VB, the increased pressure puts much more holding power to the stock clutches and they stand up very well.
Originally Posted by VikingDiesel
I've read that, depending on mileage, you can put a VB and TC in and support ~550hp. But thats just what people say on here, I'd talk to somebody that knows from experience. That should run about $1,600 from hts(they have a deal going on right now). If you don't hammer it in 4wd you should be good. Then fuel system, then turbo, then huge smile of satisfaction
. My motto is do it right the first time so you only have to do it once.
07-31-2006 | 02:34 PM
#68
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,452
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From: Nebraska
Originally Posted by JD Dearden
Wow a stock clutch holding onto 500 hp, well I am not sure what horsepower I am running but my clutch lasted 426 miles. That was with no pulling yet just accelerating onto the highway.
07-31-2006 | 02:34 PM
#69
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Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Chicago, IL
[QUOTE=omaharam]
Based on your above statements, a TC and VB are all you need. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SPEND $5000 FOR WHAT YOU WANT TO DO!!!! Look at my truck in my sig. In theory - that is based on manufacturer claims - I should be putting down 495hp. I'm guessing the dyno would tell me more like 450, but whatever. My point is that I do not have any issues with the tranny. It works great. I would recommend Goerend Brothers or HTS, and if HTS is running a special, it is an almost identical TC, so I'd say go for it.
so based in runing 13s and what I need, a TC and VB is all I need. NOT A BILLET INPUT SHAFT and nothing else?
Originally Posted by VikingDiesel
Based on your above statements, a TC and VB are all you need. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SPEND $5000 FOR WHAT YOU WANT TO DO!!!! Look at my truck in my sig. In theory - that is based on manufacturer claims - I should be putting down 495hp. I'm guessing the dyno would tell me more like 450, but whatever. My point is that I do not have any issues with the tranny. It works great. I would recommend Goerend Brothers or HTS, and if HTS is running a special, it is an almost identical TC, so I'd say go for it.
07-31-2006 | 02:47 PM
#70
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Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Canada
You just want to run 13's and then quit or will you get there and want more? If you think your going to want more, spend the money, do the tranny right & forget about it. As far as the turbo, TWINS are the way to go.
IMO
IMO
07-31-2006 | 02:52 PM
#71
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From: New Braunfels, TX
Originally Posted by JD Dearden
Wow a stock clutch holding onto 500 hp, well I am not sure what horsepower I am running but my clutch lasted 426 miles. That was with no pulling yet just accelerating onto the highway.
EDIT: sorry about the repost. I think a stock clutch is said to hold like 800ft lb. of tq or something.
07-31-2006 | 02:54 PM
#72
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 379
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From: New Braunfels, TX
[QUOTE=VikingDiesel]
so based in runing 13s and what I need, a TC and VB is all I need. NOT A BILLET INPUT SHAFT and nothing else?
Some say a flexplate is necessary at 500hp or above, others say the TC slipping is the reason the flexplate goes out. You'll find out if you need a shaft when it breaks. If it breaks.
Originally Posted by omaharam
so based in runing 13s and what I need, a TC and VB is all I need. NOT A BILLET INPUT SHAFT and nothing else?
07-31-2006 | 02:58 PM
#73
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Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Chicago, IL
What is this all about?
48RE Cummins Diesel Extreme Towing Transmission
Billet Converter, Stage III Transmission, Dyno Tested
All for $2095
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/48RE-...spagenameZWDVW
48RE Cummins Diesel Extreme Towing Transmission
Billet Converter, Stage III Transmission, Dyno Tested
All for $2095
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/48RE-...spagenameZWDVW
07-31-2006 | 02:58 PM
#74
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,452
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From: Nebraska
Originally Posted by rjohnson
Yup! Medium sized single like a PS62 (for spoolup) and Snow's injection Kit for EGT control (which you already have).... and you will have a very nice set up for 400-450 HP... which is a great power level for towing!
Your stock turbo, with a Juice just can't be fun?
Loose the 315's for better low end towing on an automatic ... JMO.
RJ
Your stock turbo, with a Juice just can't be fun?
Loose the 315's for better low end towing on an automatic ... JMO.
RJ
The stock turbo and juice is ok - unless towing. The high egts don't bother me so much for the short run - however I would like to be able to run the whole 1/4 with no worries.
As far as the 315s - I agree. The thing is, right now they aren't bad. The stock turbo spools pretty quick and the top end power I have make up for the sluggish off line performance. My brother-in-law has stock tires and a 6gun on his and when he drove mine he started to say it was way slow off the line. About that time we hit 20psi, the snow kicked in, and he stopped mid sentence and said "well I guess it makes up for it."
Anyway, the tires are pretty new and I like the way they look. What I don't want to do is buya turbo and then feel I need to go buy a new set of 265s to get the thing moving.
07-31-2006 | 02:58 PM
#75
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Joined: Jul 2005
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[QUOTE=VikingDiesel]
so based in runing 13s and what I need, a TC and VB is all I need. NOT A BILLET INPUT SHAFT and nothing else?
VikingDiesel,
I'm not trying to spend your money. (Im trying to help you later on.) But just a TC and VB WILL NOT hold up to continuous 13 second 1/4 runs. I can't speak for anyone else but I know for a fact my stock tranny (internals) wouldn't have held up to a 1/4 beating. I have a feeling some of the guys in this thread have no clue what a high 12/low 13 sec 1/4 run would do to a stock tranny. The only way you are going to get into the low 13's is to do a boost launch. Your stock flexplate, stock internals and stock shafts will HATE you.
Lucas
Originally Posted by omaharam
so based in runing 13s and what I need, a TC and VB is all I need. NOT A BILLET INPUT SHAFT and nothing else?
I'm not trying to spend your money. (Im trying to help you later on.) But just a TC and VB WILL NOT hold up to continuous 13 second 1/4 runs. I can't speak for anyone else but I know for a fact my stock tranny (internals) wouldn't have held up to a 1/4 beating. I have a feeling some of the guys in this thread have no clue what a high 12/low 13 sec 1/4 run would do to a stock tranny. The only way you are going to get into the low 13's is to do a boost launch. Your stock flexplate, stock internals and stock shafts will HATE you.
Lucas