Does anyone have any experience with the Air Werks S300 turbo that is listed on BD's website for 3rd Gens? The price seemed right, but there was not alot of info on fitment, performance, etc.

I guess I am still leaning towards a KSB-1-2...

 

The b-1 is a worked over S-300, so they'll be close.

 

Well, sorta, kinda. The B1 does indeed use one of the compressors (of which there are 12 or 14 compressors, I can't remember for sure) from the S-300 lineup, however if you look at the maps from the S-300 compressors, you'll see different efficiency maps and flow differentials of 20%. And that doesn't even begin to take into account the differences that can exist between turbine assemblies.

I have no experience with BD's S300 on an 03, but don't use the B1's performance as a guideline to how BD's turbo will perform. There may be some radical differences.

Rod

 

I've been piecing together info on the BD (S300 based) and ATS Auroras (S200 & S300 based) over the last month or so. BorgWarner gives the impression that the "S" series line is relatively new. I was lead to believe that the models used for the original B1s were discontinued as a production unit and replaced by newer technology in the "S" series turbos. I was also under the impression that Piers is able to still offer B1s only by buying them in pieces as replacement parts and basically building them in-house.

I'd like to check the accuracy of my info. Can anyone confirm or add to this?

BD and ATS both modify their Schwitzers from stock form. One company seems to mod a little more than the other. Wouldn't the slightest change in compressor/turbine wheels or housings totally change the efficiency maps and flow differentials?

 

Turbo Auto Diesel is still building all variants of the B1s, and they are available as parts are available from Borg. Demand for these chargers exceeds the supply of parts quite often though.

I was under the impression that Piers was buying B1s from Turbo Auto Diesel. If they are indeed building them in-house, then he's not building a B1, nor can a customer be assured that they really are receiving a turbo whose performance specifications match the genuine B1.

Rod

 

Well...who is going to jump in and try one?

If I went the B-1 route...I want the KSB-1-2 right? I want it to be able to support maybe another 50hp from a pressure stack with my CP3.2....

Maybe Doug can start looking into turbos as well.

 

The S3, S4,..., etc. line is old stuff, but the S300, S400,..., etc. is current. Rod is right by saying that the Schwitzer turbos have a wide "adjustability" to them. They basically have one frame and a pretty wide variety of wheels (hot and cold) that fit into that frame. Knowing the cold wheel size tells me that the B1 is on the large end of the S300 scale, and they can get down to around HX-35 size. S400s can go from slightly under HX55 size to over HT3B size. They're definitely not all created equal size/flow wise.

John

 

Banshee,

Are you running a stock turbo with your set up?

 

Cquestad,

I am for now, but a set of twins should be here for it early next week. Hopefully I'll have 'em on in a couple weeks. The poor stocker is giving me all she has though

John

 

I'm not sure I'm sold on the KSB1-2 as the best turbo solution for pulse width boxes, like the TST and CP3.2. Drive pressures get so high (I've measured 100 PSI+) and EGT control becomes an issue. EGTs appear to stay good under the 400 pony mark, but then QUICKLY get out of control after that point. Spool up is phenomenal though, and we don't want to lose that. We're waiting on some other B1 variants to get into our hands for testing purposes.

Rod

 

I had no idea Piers was buying them from TAD. I was told that anyone selling new B1s would have to build them from individual pieces, so I assumed Piers was doing that since they have a full service turbo shop. I do know that ATS doesn't build or mod their turbos themselves. They place an order and have it done for them. That is evident when you ask technical questions.....they can have a hard time answering them. Could these be from TAD as well you think? BD is apparently modifying theirs in-house, at least they claim. I suppose that could explain the significant difference in price for two turbos based on the same platform. ATS has another middleman to pay.

 

Guess I will wait too...for quad's pressure/timing box and turbo of choice.
Thanks Push Rod!

 

With the correct mix of pressure, timing and pulse, I think the KSB1-2 would be an excellent choice. We've got a few customers running injectors and Edge boxes, putting down 425HP, and temps are in the safe areas. Spool up is sweet, and the trucks drive beautifully.

Rod

 

By theroy (just approx), I would be looking at these combinations:

Duration on Low 50hp Pressure on Low 50hp TRWH = 350
Duration on High 100hp Pressure on Low 50hp TRWH = 400
Duration on High 100hp Pressure on High 100hp TRWH = 450

So it would be safe to say I could potentially have 400hp and change with a Quad or EZ stacked with CP3.2. That would put me in line for a KSB1-2, unless I am missing something?

 

Hmmmmm, that is a good question. We've been running with the TST on level 2 (little better than 70 HP, but much of the power comes from timing),and the Edge on level 6. EGTs are well under control with a Ram Air III. Unfortunately, we haven't had a chance to dyno this combo, but it should be in that 400 range.

Rod