smokeblower

yeah on the Banks site they outline exactly what the specs of the truck were.

smokeblower

I wonder if the six gun will take the Cummins 600 w/ 325hp to the same increased amount.

Tom488

Horace,

Here's the document from Banks - no where in here does the word 'duration' ever appear:

http://www.getpower.com/Tech_SixGun_Cummins.cfm

In the bulleted specs for the Six Gun, the first bullet reads "Stacked for Power™: tunes timing and fuel pressure, all in one device"

The only thing new they're introducing is an attempt to monitor transmission slippage, and defuel to maintain an "acceptable" amount of slippage. While this is a nice feature for those who want to add more power and keep a stock drivetrain, most of the serious power junkies will have already modified their drivetrain to properly handle the additional power.

In short, I think the Banks box will assume the position between the Edge EZ/Bullydog/Volumizer/other pressure and/or timing boxes, and fall well below the TST PMCR and the eventual release of the Edge Juice.

Since both the TST and the Juice have/will have built-in digital gauges, you have to factor in gauge costs to the Banks product as well, and when you do that, you come up with the most expensive box that produces middle-of-the-road power enhancements.

Is this really a surprise?

doug

Lets not get hung up on words. The article does mention duration, but not by that name. it says "lengthening the injection pulse". But read the article carefully. Basically it says there are three methods and two are worth focusing on...

that the Banks 6 gun is a timing/pressure box has also been confirmed over on the TDR by a Banks rep who was responding to questions about why a timing/pressure box is so late to market.

apparently, banks doesn't think that duration is worth focusing on. to me, the Banks box is a contradiction -- all this slip detection wah-hoo aimed at reliability and yet the box puts additional stress on the fuel system rail.

The stock rail has about 15% of margin built into it for reliability's sake (23,000 lbs running max pressure, but the practical limit is 27,000). Thats one design margin I'm not willing to encroach upon at this point.

Battering Ram

Actually no its not a suprise at all... that is why I try my best to educate the public about some of Banks Products and claims. I have to admit I was wrong and that the Banks box not even using duration is even a shock to me. Some of there thinking in Azusa just doesn't seem like sound engineering. It would not surprise me if down the road they did add duration to there box, stick a Big Hoss sticker on it, and charge and extra $500.

Horace

doug

It sounds to me as if Banks' primary goal was to enter the market with a high-end high priced box with some unique industry contribution. I have no idea why they didn't go for duration except that maybe they gave up early in that race (hence the comment that the only worth while approaches are timing and pressure...). Reading in between the lines, I suspect that the engine code issues associated with duration experiements caused them to abandon the effort.

the industry contribution is unique, and I think they succeeded in what they attempted. They did some real study around pressure and seem to have a reasonable approach to that method (pressure arguments aside). They also went for timing which itself is worth 40 or so HP I'm told. And their silver bullet is slip detection. having decided to avoid duration (my opinion) they established an achievable set of goals. all cool and doable from an engineering standpoint.

So I won't fault Banks for setting out some goals and achieving them. I just don't understand the set of assumptions they made going into the project, and I just stand in wonder that a box with those features would have the appeal of the bomb crowd. I guess it will appeal to those who don't know or care what method is used, want to stay stock, have an automatic, and want to pay that much for a mild performance box without a boost gauge.

I think it is sound engineering (the engineers did a good job delivering what they were asked to build). I just think it is either faulty market research or they're aiming at the uninformed. just my opinion of course -- mostly driven by the fact that I'm a No pressure" guy. just think -- we'll stress your high pressure fuel system and protect your tranny...

VueDoo

All these dyno charts don't really mean a thing unless the EGT's they made at those claimed power levels is also posted. 400hp is useless @ 1800 deg. EGT.

zzsdad

Just to add my .02. I recently had a LT1 put in a Jeep. Fairly extensive computer work but it all worked the first time. I was impressed. Turns out, the puter guy that did my Jeep subcontracted at Banks. He told me stories about them putting ballistic blankets over the fuel system of the CTD while testing. I guess it was not enough, unless they "wanted" to cut a hole in the hood of the truck they were running the test on. I guess they also had a box fail "ON." To top it off, the tranny locked up sending the entire package off the road. I guess they have it so they fail OFF now. How much would that suck? A run-a-way with 500hp and 1k of torque. This is second hand info so take it for what it is. I'm leaning towards the TST or Edge. Still not sure if I want to give up the warranty yet. The check book is helping with my decision.