tritont

on valves and pistons. I'm wondering if anyone has any info on how well it holds up or how beneficial it is.

I've heard it's a big benefit to reduce swelling and keep temps down and I've also heard that if you were to look at the coated surface after so many miles, you won't even know you had it.

For as little as it costs I'm doing it but, would like to hear more about it.

Also, if shaving the piston, would the addition of .010 of ceramic coating call for shaving .010 more off the piston to keep the same compression ratio ?

t-boe

I don't know how beneficial a piston coating on a diesel would be. I know you can get the skirts coated with a "teflon like" coating for less resistence and the tops with a heat reflecting coating. I don't think .010 will change your compression ratio enough to worry about it. One that might be beneficial is an oil shedding coating. Put it on oil pan, crank counter weights, valve cover, etc. Any place where oil might cling to and isn't doing any good there.

This might help a little to. http://www.dartheads.com/dartc.aspx

tritont

Thanks.. The skirts are being teflon lined also. It's the ceramic I'm wondering about. It's suppose to help prevent heat build up which in turn will keep swelling down also. The tops and undersides will be ceramic and the skirt in teflon. If it were to come off, it's so thin it wouldn't cause a problem, I'm just wondering if anyone knew how well it would hold up.

I think in a diesel especially, it would be beneficial due to the heat that can be seen in a cylinder.

t-boe

I think it just depends on the coating. Find out how high of a temp it'll withstand. I'm just guessing but you'll need at least 2000* or more. I wonder if anyone knows the temps the combustion chamber will see. It's definately higher than what you'd see on an EGT gauge for sure.

Don M

We burned the Swain coating off one set of Cummins pistons. The crown coating that vaporized was not the Gold coat type, but the other.

Another funny thing was that plain old aerosol brake parts cleaner would remove the coating as well. During initial engine fitting, checking clearances, fish scaling the resistance, etc I sometimes use brake cleaner to remove oils or grease. I was somewhat surprised to see it remove the upper layers of the coating as well. Those pistons were relegated to the parts bin and never installed.

Return packaging was terrible on another set. They were not cushioned enough in transit and ended up damaging the ring lands on two pistons. The ring lands had to be repaired.

Just 3 out of 3 of my experiences with the Swain stuff. This does not include the gold coat though.

Texas Cowboy

Don M I just got my pistons back from Swain tech with the gold coat on the tops and PCM on the sides. Did I just waste $400+ dollars? I don't want this stufff to come off and kill the twins?? Will it kill the twins if it comes off? Please let me know! Very concerned now.

Don M

I have no experiance with the Gold coat. The other coating ( I cant recall the name now ) came off like paint would with the brake cleaner. Not in chunks though.

I have never had the poly skirt coating come off per se, but it did wear off in some areas. Nothing Swain did wrong on their part. Just normal wear.

The last set of Swain pistons I had done were with the older coating, not the gold. At the time, Swain warned against using the gold for long term use. "Racing only" was they words used. Now they say the Gold is the best way to go. I dont know why they changed their position. Perhaps a formula change? Application method? It would be a guess on my part.

What engine are you building? Whats it for?

tritont

Thanks for the info Don. brake cleaner can sure get rid of stuff but, this stuff is suppose to be baked on and embedded into the aluminum. It's not good to hear it can come off that easily.

Due to the few highway miles that are going to be on my truck, I've been advise against the Arias pistons that I've so patiently waited a month for . Wish this would have been mentioned in the beginning ! they knew how the truck was going to be driven.

So, I'm back to oversized stock pistons... the reason I want them coated. Can you recommend another company that I can rely on to do a good coating job on pistons and valves ?

Another question came up about your II cam. Is there a need to cut in valve reliefs or is it not necessary ? The stocks will be shaved to 15:1

tritont

What i was told about the coating is that it's the thickness of gold leaf. The surface is prepped by sanding to make it porous, the ceramic is applied and then baked at 500F for a period of time. The ceramic is suppose to embed into the pores to become a part of the piston or what ever surface is being coated.

Because the ceramic is so thin, it's not going to cause a problem if it comes loose. How much truth there is to this... I don't know. It's what I've been told by two different coaters though.

trik396

I don't know about too much of a benefit of coating the valves and not the entire chamber area of the head?

Plus I've heard of good and bad things about Swain. There are alot of other companies out there that do this stuff...

Wasn't it your truck that had the exhaust coated? maybe I'm thinking of another....?

cbrahs

Ty,
I knew of a guy in eastern washington (was a long time ago) that built some killer big litre diesels (over the road trucks 12L or larger with over 1000HP) and ceramic coated everything. He set records with a 4 cylinder back in the early 70's and then went to the diesel world. I think he is still around and will call my dad (pops grew up with him) and see if we can track him down.

trik396

Here's the company we've used in the past with good results. Pistons and zoomie headers were coated by them for a blown alcohol funny car engine. No problems with the coatings... Of course engine didn't last a whole season anyway. Blew a bowling ball sized chunk outta it midway thru a pass at Rt.66 Raceway...

http://www.lo-ko.com/services.html

tritont

thanks guys. Chris, let me know what you find out.

I've been talking to a guy in Texas .. Engine Ceramics who really seem to know what he's doing. His work is in Nascar, Funny car, industrial applications...etc. Seems I might outta call around to find the general opinion on diesel coatings and types used.

I was going with Swain because of their reputation and because of being one of the innovators of ceramics for coating. Plus I believe performance is a primary part of their business.

Maybe it's wise to stay with the small guy. These big companies seem to only want to talk if you're spending lots of money and their customer service always seems to be lacking.

tritont

I do have a Jet Hotted ATS manifold and I also Jet hotted the stack plumbing but, not the whole exhaust. I stuck with SS there.

I would think just the surface areas of the valve and piston would benefit from coating as they're the two areas that take all the heat directly ???

trik396

Someone may know more than me... heck I'm sure alot of guys know more than me... But what I'm thinking is if you do just the valves and not the area of the head around them, you're creating hot spots which may lead to problems.