MR. GADGET

I Got an AFE drop in and run it for a few months it was real good new and I was running into a wall around 23-2700 rpms it just got slow so I was thinking Fuel filter then changed that ran another tank of fuel with no change so the other day I pulled and cleaned the AFE and re oiled it put it back in and all is good.
I thought they could go at least 10-12000 miles before cleaning. It looked real clean but I cleaned it anyways.
I drive on road no dust or durt roads.
I'm going back to paper and send this back if I need to clean it at every 5000 mile oil change.
Jon

Hoss

I have heard that air flow on the Proguard 7 AFE filters is not so good. Filtration is supposed to be good, but better filtration typically means less air flow.

I've been trying to decide on a new intake and have yet to find one that gave me better air flow AND good filtration.

MR. GADGET

This is the standard not the proguard 7
Jon

Jerry R

I drive dirt roads everyday and I have switched to the True Flow Filter. Only have about 5000 miles on it so far but like it alot. I will be changing my oil this weekend and am having the oil tested to see if the fiter is doing it's job. Will post the results when I get them

Dodgezilla

I had to clean and re-oil my Proguard 7 after 8000 miles but I also had to change my stock filter at the same intervals too. The 03s had a problem with filters getting dirty fast. I don't mind cleaning this one every couple of months. It beats buying a new one every couple of months...

SuperGewl

This is why CUMMINS states that they do NOT reccomend and will possibly VOID your warranty if you use this type of air filter. With these new engines it is very important to maintain proper air flow to the engine. The CUmmins reps have said that the K&N, AIRRAID, AFE and gauze type of filters will not allow the proper amount of air flow however they do a great job of stopping dirt and debree from getting to the engine

I too wold reccomend using the AMSOIL, Trueflow or DC airfilter to ensure proper airflow and filteration

Mark Craig

MR. GADGET,

There is a test just completed by Testand Ind that ran all kinds of filters, the paper filters were at 99.73 % efficient in the fine dust dirt stopping category, the PG7 by AFE was 99.23% effecient, for all practical purposes they are the same. That said a paper filter will need to be replaced at very close to the same interval as you need to clean the PG7 filter, so yes it's a pain but it beats letting dirt thru with a 4 layer gauze filter and or throwing away a paper filter, as that gets pretty expensive over the ownership life of the truck. The real problem lies in the pitiful size of the factroy air box, it's just about right for a 2.0 Liter Toyota, it's not just Dodge either, Ford and GM do the same dumb designs. A diesel will use between 8-10 times the amount of air that a some dimension gas engine will use doing the same work, why oh why would you use a gas sized air filter box, look at semis, their filter is the size of a 5 gallon Igloo water cooler!

Thats why the intake system work so well on the diesel trucks and on gas engines the gains are very minimal at best. You get a much larger filter that can breathe from a lot better supply source etc.

Mark @ DPPI

MR. GADGET

Thanks for everyones info on this.
Mark
I was not in question about how efficient the filter was but the fact that I was only able to run 3-4 months on it and the first 2 factory filters went 10,000 miles each.
I think if they are the same and I replace with factory at 10,000 or clean at 4,000 I will just go back to throw a way filters. If I do keep using the AFE how many times can you wash it before you start having the gauze break down?
It is in there cleaning instructions if I remember correct about not over cleaning.
Say you clean it once a year it will last 6-7 years but at each 4,000 miles would you get 3-4 years out of it.
I would hate to see it not do its job because the gauze fell apart.
Thanks for any help on this.
Jon

RustyJC

Mark,

Absolutely no flame intended, but let's look at the numbers you quoted another way:

Paper filters - 0.27 out of every 100 dirt particles make it through the filter. (100% - 99.73%)

PG7 - 0.77 out of every 100 dirt particles make it through the filter. (100% - 99.23%)

Therefore, the paper filter allows only 1/3 (0.27/0.77) as much dirt to enter the engine as the PG7.

Rusty

Hoss

Not as I understand it. From what I've read, the Proguard 7 filters better (than the standard AFE filter) but doesn't offer much flow. The standard offers lots of flow but doesn't filter as well.

I think evidence of this can easily be found in this very thread.

doug

Mark Twain said that there are lies, "d" lies, and then statistics. so lets be careful how we interpret the numbers.

Just to keep perspective, the factory standard spec is 99.50% "AC fine dust". That is, DC expects 5 grams out of every 1000 grams of dirt to end up in the engine. Justin is right in this regard: Its true that we are interested in the amount of dirt that gets into the engine. Beyond that, however, we need to understand the effect on engine wear. yes, we can say "50% more dirt gets in with filter x versus filter y". but what does that really mean? what is the real effect on engine wear?

All filter media will have a variability around some nominal, so to test one filter and claim all are alike is a falicy. for example, we know that one example of the fleeguard panel filter (factory replacement) tested at 99.56%.

the AFE also has a nominal manufacturing % efficiency and some variability around that nominal across actual production media. so all we can say here is that we picked one filter and it was measured at 99.23%. We don't know if we picked one by chance that was below their nominal and we certainly can't say that the nominal % efficiency of all AFE filters is 99.23% any more than we can say that all paper filters are 99.73%.

these tests need to be highly controlled and are very expensive to perform. Strict adherence to SAE J726 test procedures is requried before we can say anything about the "% efficiency" number. Mark -- can you confirm that J726 specifications were used throughout this test and that the "fine dust" test was actually the accepted particle distribution developed by AC delco?

If we really want to compare two filters for the reason we put filters on our trucks (avoid engine wear), we will want to study more than the "AC fine dust" test. This benchmark means something, but it does not tell the whole story. It is a generalization obtained by introducing a known mass of dirt of certain known particle sizes to the filter, and then measureing the mass of the dirt passed through the element. My point is that the % efficiency number does not tell us what particle sizes are passed by the filter, even though that is a very important piece of the puzzle that affects engine wear.

Understanding the effect on engine wear requires engine oil analysis, which several guys are now doing, including myself. analysis of iron (cylinder wear) and chromium (ring wear) in the oil tells the story of how the parts are actually wearing. Note that looking at just silica levels in the oil is not sufficient either! thats because the infra-red analysis technique is only sensitive to particles of about 5 microns or less in size. The test is blind to larger particles.

Note too that it is also a falicy to take one oil analysis, compare it with another sample ran with another filter, and call it good science. thats no more scientific than asking 1 person on the street who s/he will vote for in the presidential election -- the margin of error is too large for the figure to be of any value. Likewise, those of us doing oil analysis need to collect several comparative samples before we will know anything of value.

so we have to take a larger approach to the filter question -- the answer is not contained in one "% efficiency number".

that aside, this number (99.23%) is surprising, given the AFE claims. They should be at 99.5% or better, and I'm sure would be interested in knowing the test procedure and conditions used, etc, and if the tested media was representative of their current product.

Buzz

So, what's wrong with the stock filter? Probably nothing or it wouldn't be there in the first place. Why is it everyone is trying to outsmart the design engineers? I've seen it time and time again. Start messing with your vehicle and you end up with nothing but problems. I've seen it stated on this site many times. The posts will start out something like this: I just put an Edge Ez on my truck and evreything is fine except the clutch slips...Or, I just installed a lift kit and it looks great but it wobbles and doesn't track straight...or, I just installed a cool down timer but my ABS light comes on. Etc, etc., etc. If you ask me, those are some pretty big If's, And's or But's.

It's not that I'm against bombing. You can do what you like to your truck. It just seems like there's always a price to be paid in the form of performance or reliabilty. Bombs away!

Buy your truck, drive your truck...live happily ever after!
Just my take on it!

MR. GADGET

So what's your deal??
If you don't have anything to add to this post stay out of it!!!!!!!
If replacing a filter with an aftermarket filter is bombing you need to learn a lot more.


I did not want to trash an air filter at 10K miles and wanted a replacement filter that I could wash and reuse. There are a lot of people using them and I have for going on I think 25 years now with no problems.
Something to add for the people that want info on what is going on with this: I called AFE and was told "they have had filters going out with to much oil on them sometimes" "over oiled" and if you get one "wrap it in a towel and it will pull it off".
They should go 1 to 2 times a normal filter so in my case 15,000 to 20,000 miles. I will see what happens.
Jon

Buzz

doug

Buzz: responsible bombers realize that the manufacturer's goals, measures of success, and even applicable law, are often different than their own. We adjust what we can, understand the benefits and risks, experiment, analyze, share results, and benefit the bombing community.

Those who hang out in the performance sections of the forums are generally amenable, instead of critical, to those activities. those who diefy the OEM engineers are usually horrified to change tire size, and are usually not found discussing the weaknesses in the EOM design.