717 Hp Cr
01-14-2007, 06:52 PM
#76
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There are a few of the same design that Richard is workig on out there. I cant wait to see the results, but like many things in the performance world, I will not count any chickens until they hatch.
The chances of them hatching is very high though. Almost certain.
yee haww
The chances of them hatching is very high though. Almost certain.
yee haww
01-14-2007, 07:05 PM
#77
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) when I built his injectors. With dual pumps and bigger stix, Loyd would probably close the 800 gap quickly. Tim had 662 before the cam and dual pumps, but was making 55 PSI. He now has 722. A gain of 60 HP with a cam and pumps. But his boost has dropped to 40 PSI. Either he has some leaks or the wastegate is blowing open.
800 = yes. 850 = very likely. 900 = coming soon to a theater near you. LOL
1000? Dooood! Probably can be done with some of the newer technology around the corner pretty quickly. Daily driver too. Not sure how long the engine will stay together though.
01-14-2007, 11:43 PM
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800 is doable with an off the shelf set up. Loyd Mills has 730 with his set up. Uncorrected and does not have dual pumps. I was out of parts ( what else is new ) when I built his injectors. With dual pumps and bigger stix, Loyd would probably close the 800 gap quickly.
Tim had 662 before the cam and dual pumps, but was making 55 PSI. He now has 722. A gain of 60 HP with a cam and pumps. But his boost has dropped to 40 PSI. Either he has some leaks or the wastegate is blowing open.
800 = yes. 850 = very likely. 900 = coming soon to a theater near you. LOL
1000? Dooood! Probably can be done with some of the newer technology around the corner pretty quickly. Daily driver too. Not sure how long the engine will stay together though.
) when I built his injectors. With dual pumps and bigger stix, Loyd would probably close the 800 gap quickly. Tim had 662 before the cam and dual pumps, but was making 55 PSI. He now has 722. A gain of 60 HP with a cam and pumps. But his boost has dropped to 40 PSI. Either he has some leaks or the wastegate is blowing open.
800 = yes. 850 = very likely. 900 = coming soon to a theater near you. LOL
1000? Dooood! Probably can be done with some of the newer technology around the corner pretty quickly. Daily driver too. Not sure how long the engine will stay together though.
01-15-2007, 01:40 AM
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There are a few of the same design that Richard is workig on out there. I cant wait to see the results, but like many things in the performance world, I will not count any chickens until they hatch.
The chances of them hatching is very high though. Almost certain.
yee haww
The chances of them hatching is very high though. Almost certain.
yee haww
01-15-2007, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by D.Wiggs
Would the 850 includ NOS? IF not, a 150 or 200 shot would get you to the magical 1000 number. That is, if you didn't mind NOT doing it on #2 only!
I would say 850 on #2 since we are this close already
01-15-2007, 02:37 PM
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Ray,
We used to make industrial versions back in 2004 and 2003 at work and they used the same headgasket as the DCX common rails.
All Cummins engines comply with EPA regulations.
The head on the RV/Industrial ISB02 5.9 is basically the same. Accessory parts however can be different and make it appear to have a different head.
Part numbers are different but its basically the same head (as it would work on a DCX motor).
Your parts guy might be referring to the 12 Valve which has some choices as to headgasket thicknesses.
Even the 24V ISB with the VP44 only has one thickness of headgasket...
The 24v's that run thicker headgaskets are adapted 12V gaskets (usually marine gaskets).
If there really is a thicker common rail gasket it would work on our trucks since the ISB02's (industrial common rails) use the same head and block.
We used to make industrial versions back in 2004 and 2003 at work and they used the same headgasket as the DCX common rails.
All Cummins engines comply with EPA regulations.
The head on the RV/Industrial ISB02 5.9 is basically the same. Accessory parts however can be different and make it appear to have a different head.
Part numbers are different but its basically the same head (as it would work on a DCX motor).
Your parts guy might be referring to the 12 Valve which has some choices as to headgasket thicknesses.
Even the 24V ISB with the VP44 only has one thickness of headgasket...
The 24v's that run thicker headgaskets are adapted 12V gaskets (usually marine gaskets).
If there really is a thicker common rail gasket it would work on our trucks since the ISB02's (industrial common rails) use the same head and block.
What I was trying to say is that for the c/r motor in our trucks, cummins does not have a thicker gasket for us since I had an 03 and now an 05. When using our engine numbers, cummins reply is that since this an EPA regulated ON ROAD motor no such options are available. They want us to keep stock compression. YES for the industrial OFF ROAD motor there are thicker gaskets available. I know about the 12v's I have had a few but I want to same for the c/r motors. This was an e-mail sent to us by cummins so they are not my words but theirs. I also believe that for the c/r motor there is only a .010 over gasket and not a twenty but I will have to reaserch it.
Richard
01-15-2007, 04:46 PM
#83
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What I was trying to say is that for the c/r motor in our trucks, cummins does not have a thicker gasket for us since I had an 03 and now an 05. When using our engine numbers, cummins reply is that since this an EPA regulated ON ROAD motor no such options are available. They want us to keep stock compression. YES for the industrial OFF ROAD motor there are thicker gaskets available. I know about the 12v's I have had a few but I want to same for the c/r motors. This was an e-mail sent to us by cummins so they are not my words but theirs. I also believe that for the c/r motor there is only a .010 over gasket and not a twenty but I will have to reaserch it.
Richard
Richard
Richard:
Is there some reason why the newer Cummins Common Rail Engines can't be set-up with 14mm studs and firerings at the top of the cylinder holes in the block like I have done with my 12 valve engine block?? Is anyone running this set-up or is it not feasible because of the MLS gaskets?? I know that on my 96' Dodge CTD 12 valve truck and most of the high performance 12 valve sled pulling trucks and DHRA/NHDRA Pro-Street Trucks this is a set-up that is proven and has worked very well to avoid blown headgaskets or head gasket problems.
Thanks.
--------
John_P
01-15-2007, 06:22 PM
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There are two different common rail gaskets available. And yes, it is possible to use the bigger studs and firerings, but with the luck we have been having with a properly prepared surface and the ease of the MLS gasket, few have bothered going the route of firerings. Mine has taken all kinds of abuse. The ones that have issues with the MLS gaskets are usually running drugs.
01-15-2007, 09:21 PM
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----------------
Richard:
Is there some reason why the newer Cummins Common Rail Engines can't be set-up with 14mm studs and firerings at the top of the cylinder holes in the block like I have done with my 12 valve engine block?? Is anyone running this set-up or is it not feasible because of the MLS gaskets?? I know that on my 96' Dodge CTD 12 valve truck and most of the high performance 12 valve sled pulling trucks and DHRA/NHDRA Pro-Street Trucks this is a set-up that is proven and has worked very well to avoid blown headgaskets or head gasket problems.
Thanks.
--------
John_P
Richard:
Is there some reason why the newer Cummins Common Rail Engines can't be set-up with 14mm studs and firerings at the top of the cylinder holes in the block like I have done with my 12 valve engine block?? Is anyone running this set-up or is it not feasible because of the MLS gaskets?? I know that on my 96' Dodge CTD 12 valve truck and most of the high performance 12 valve sled pulling trucks and DHRA/NHDRA Pro-Street Trucks this is a set-up that is proven and has worked very well to avoid blown headgaskets or head gasket problems.
Thanks.
--------
John_P
Richard
01-16-2007, 10:13 AM
#87
Another thing to add. 700+rwhp will show all facory defects that will not show up in the 500hp range. I was blowing antifreeze out of the rad cap and popping through the intake, when I first hit it hard. Turns out my head was not exactly flat around the cooling ports and the intake valves were tuliping due to the factory valve springs. Milling .007, a complete valve job and F1 Springs fixed these. These problems never showed up racing or dynoing in the high 500hp range. Allso high quality synthetic oil should be used due to high cylinder temps(not egts). My cylinders all had good crosshatch and no scoring but I have used synthetic oil since it had 3k miles on it. Not trying to worry anyone but you will have more and expensive maintance the higher you go. Tim
That is EXACTLY what I was triyng to tell a fellow member here on the board. He had asked how to make his truck more reliable at these power numbers, and I told him how there is a difference in Factory machine work, and QUALITY machine work. A few members of course said he would be fine, and that our motor's are tough enough, blah, blah, blah.
That is why "Stock" and "Stock Eliminator" are NOT stock at all in NHRA. You think they run "stock" motors?? Nope, the motor's are pulled apart, and QUALITY machine work is done to what cannot be replaced (the heads a re a perfect example....valve jobs, springs, re surface, etc....) that FACTORY machine work is just not up to the standards that are needed.
01-16-2007, 10:20 AM
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From personal experience, you can have a daily driver that can make over 600hp plus but you don't want to drive around all the time with the boxes or programers on kill. I read alot on here about people that drive around with the Smarty on 9 and a stack and yes it will work and the truck will rock....for a while but you are dealing with aluminum, cast iron and steel lubricated by hot oil and in this environment all these metals have a fatigue life that is influenced by mechanical stress of high torque and horsepower and by temperature stress of high heat cycles to less than ideal cool down cycles. Cummins designed this motor to last on average probably 300,000 miles. Some make it more ..... some make it less. By increasing the mechanical and temperature stresses you are definitely lowering the longevity.
This summer I had tons of fuel and tons of air and my truck was running as good as a truck could run....Despite 3 different dynos I couldn't get the truck to stick to the rollers so when the twins lit they would light for a second slip the rollers and boost would drop. On the track I could keep boost high provided I didn't loose traction on each shift which is easy to do on a 4wd non lsd dually with 45psi in the tires. On the track I could easily hold 70psi of boost with the egt's less than 1400 and water flowing at full tilt. In my mind this would represent about 850hp with my set up at the time. The problem was that just as easily I could make 90psi and egts of 1700deg. There is a very fine line with great performance and damaging performance. In the future all my high horsepower will be in a vehicle that I don't like to drive in on a daily basis. The greengoat is back and is running great with a brandnew motor with a great set of flux 1.5's, a fluid damper and a FASS and that is it. If you love your truck you will save the big hp for a few moments a week and you will be prepared to be without it many times for rebuilds of the engine or tranny. Tim Great numbers! My race motor is going to 14mm studs, and firerings with a waterjeted MLS gasket. In my mind its the only way to go. ks
This summer I had tons of fuel and tons of air and my truck was running as good as a truck could run....Despite 3 different dynos I couldn't get the truck to stick to the rollers so when the twins lit they would light for a second slip the rollers and boost would drop. On the track I could keep boost high provided I didn't loose traction on each shift which is easy to do on a 4wd non lsd dually with 45psi in the tires. On the track I could easily hold 70psi of boost with the egt's less than 1400 and water flowing at full tilt. In my mind this would represent about 850hp with my set up at the time. The problem was that just as easily I could make 90psi and egts of 1700deg. There is a very fine line with great performance and damaging performance. In the future all my high horsepower will be in a vehicle that I don't like to drive in on a daily basis. The greengoat is back and is running great with a brandnew motor with a great set of flux 1.5's, a fluid damper and a FASS and that is it. If you love your truck you will save the big hp for a few moments a week and you will be prepared to be without it many times for rebuilds of the engine or tranny. Tim Great numbers! My race motor is going to 14mm studs, and firerings with a waterjeted MLS gasket. In my mind its the only way to go. ks
01-16-2007, 02:08 PM
#89
Administrator
From personal experience, you can have a daily driver that can make over 600hp plus but you don't want to drive around all the time with the boxes or programers on kill. I read alot on here about people that drive around with the Smarty on 9 and a stack and yes it will work and the truck will rock....for a while but you are dealing with aluminum, cast iron and steel lubricated by hot oil and in this environment all these metals have a fatigue life that is influenced by mechanical stress of high torque and horsepower and by temperature stress of high heat cycles to less than ideal cool down cycles. Cummins designed this motor to last on average probably 300,000 miles. Some make it more ..... some make it less. By increasing the mechanical and temperature stresses you are definitely lowering the longevity.
This summer I had tons of fuel and tons of air and my truck was running as good as a truck could run....Despite 3 different dynos I couldn't get the truck to stick to the rollers so when the twins lit they would light for a second slip the rollers and boost would drop. On the track I could keep boost high provided I didn't loose traction on each shift which is easy to do on a 4wd non lsd dually with 45psi in the tires. On the track I could easily hold 70psi of boost with the egt's less than 1400 and water flowing at full tilt. In my mind this would represent about 850hp with my set up at the time. The problem was that just as easily I could make 90psi and egts of 1700deg. There is a very fine line with great performance and damaging performance. In the future all my high horsepower will be in a vehicle that I don't like to drive in on a daily basis. The greengoat is back and is running great with a brandnew motor with a great set of flux 1.5's, a fluid damper and a FASS and that is it. If you love your truck you will save the big hp for a few moments a week and you will be prepared to be without it many times for rebuilds of the engine or tranny. Tim Great numbers! My race motor is going to 14mm studs, and firerings with a waterjeted MLS gasket. In my mind its the only way to go. ks
This summer I had tons of fuel and tons of air and my truck was running as good as a truck could run....Despite 3 different dynos I couldn't get the truck to stick to the rollers so when the twins lit they would light for a second slip the rollers and boost would drop. On the track I could keep boost high provided I didn't loose traction on each shift which is easy to do on a 4wd non lsd dually with 45psi in the tires. On the track I could easily hold 70psi of boost with the egt's less than 1400 and water flowing at full tilt. In my mind this would represent about 850hp with my set up at the time. The problem was that just as easily I could make 90psi and egts of 1700deg. There is a very fine line with great performance and damaging performance. In the future all my high horsepower will be in a vehicle that I don't like to drive in on a daily basis. The greengoat is back and is running great with a brandnew motor with a great set of flux 1.5's, a fluid damper and a FASS and that is it. If you love your truck you will save the big hp for a few moments a week and you will be prepared to be without it many times for rebuilds of the engine or tranny. Tim Great numbers! My race motor is going to 14mm studs, and firerings with a waterjeted MLS gasket. In my mind its the only way to go. ks
abc4yew:
Good post buddy!
Reading your post reminded me of why I have my 1996 Dodge CTD 12 valve set-up for high performance, drag racing etc. and why my 2006 Dodge CTD CR will be set-up for more as a "daily driver" with more H.P. and torque, BUT not so it is too radical!
And that way if myself or any of the N.C./VA.DTR Crew break one of the "race trucks" I will have something to tow us home with. I know that Mike D. can relate to that! And I agree with you on the 14mm studs and firerings.
--------
John_P
01-17-2007, 04:16 AM
#90
Registered User
From personal experience, you can have a daily driver that can make over 600hp plus but you don't want to drive around all the time with the boxes or programers on kill. I read alot on here about people that drive around with the Smarty on 9 and a stack and yes it will work and the truck will rock....for a while but you are dealing with aluminum, cast iron and steel lubricated by hot oil and in this environment all these metals have a fatigue life that is influenced by mechanical stress of high torque and horsepower and by temperature stress of high heat cycles to less than ideal cool down cycles. Cummins designed this motor to last on average probably 300,000 miles. Some make it more ..... some make it less. By increasing the mechanical and temperature stresses you are definitely lowering the longevity.
This summer I had tons of fuel and tons of air and my truck was running as good as a truck could run....Despite 3 different dynos I couldn't get the truck to stick to the rollers so when the twins lit they would light for a second slip the rollers and boost would drop. On the track I could keep boost high provided I didn't loose traction on each shift which is easy to do on a 4wd non lsd dually with 45psi in the tires. On the track I could easily hold 70psi of boost with the egt's less than 1400 and water flowing at full tilt. In my mind this would represent about 850hp with my set up at the time. The problem was that just as easily I could make 90psi and egts of 1700deg. There is a very fine line with great performance and damaging performance. In the future all my high horsepower will be in a vehicle that I don't like to drive in on a daily basis. The greengoat is back and is running great with a brandnew motor with a great set of flux 1.5's, a fluid damper and a FASS and that is it. If you love your truck you will save the big hp for a few moments a week and you will be prepared to be without it many times for rebuilds of the engine or tranny. Tim Great numbers! My race motor is going to 14mm studs, and firerings with a waterjeted MLS gasket. In my mind its the only way to go. ks
This summer I had tons of fuel and tons of air and my truck was running as good as a truck could run....Despite 3 different dynos I couldn't get the truck to stick to the rollers so when the twins lit they would light for a second slip the rollers and boost would drop. On the track I could keep boost high provided I didn't loose traction on each shift which is easy to do on a 4wd non lsd dually with 45psi in the tires. On the track I could easily hold 70psi of boost with the egt's less than 1400 and water flowing at full tilt. In my mind this would represent about 850hp with my set up at the time. The problem was that just as easily I could make 90psi and egts of 1700deg. There is a very fine line with great performance and damaging performance. In the future all my high horsepower will be in a vehicle that I don't like to drive in on a daily basis. The greengoat is back and is running great with a brandnew motor with a great set of flux 1.5's, a fluid damper and a FASS and that is it. If you love your truck you will save the big hp for a few moments a week and you will be prepared to be without it many times for rebuilds of the engine or tranny. Tim Great numbers! My race motor is going to 14mm studs, and firerings with a waterjeted MLS gasket. In my mind its the only way to go. ks
Question?.....along the lines of this post. Do you think there is any harm to one of our engines running a Smarty on level 9 (no stacks) vs. running it on a lower level or stock, if you don't abuse it all the time....just normal driving?
You take 2 equal trucks that are otherwise stock. One has a Smarty and one doesn't. Is the Smartyfied truck going to have a shorter lifespan if they were driven equally all of their lifespan/towing/daily driving? No abuse to either one. Thanks!