22.5" vs 3.42 swap vs new G56 swap
10-29-2007 | 01:19 PM
#46
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Think I am getting more set on going for the 3.42 swap and changing to 285/75/17 from teh 315/70/17's. This seems to offer the best option to downshift into 5th and run 55 at 2000 RPM if the need arises or 60 at 1600 RPM.
10-29-2007 | 01:43 PM
#48
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From: conroe tx
A more effective sales approach would be based on valid facts.
25K for factory rubber? I say you have a tire defect or truck problem (alignment, etc). I don't know what you guys are getting with the good-for-a-year OEM tires, but the factory Michelins will typically do at least 40K-- sometimes double that. And $1K for 4 new shoes is too high, even with premium rubber. Heck, I can get premium 315s for that, never mind the stock 265 size. Needless to say, your pessimistic appraisal of the oem cost profile improperly creates that impression that the larger tires have a favorable cost profile.
Moreover, if you are getting bad mileage at 80mph, it's because your going too fast in a vehicle with bad aerodynamics
. Of course your engine is turning higher RPM-- it's not designed to run 80mph empty, it's designed to pull 65mph loaded, which it will do very nicely.
If a person is spinning their engine 2400-3000 rpm in their typical usage, they made a poor choice of options or gearing or both. Maybe they're still just driving too fast. The G56 with 3.73s is about the same overall gearing as an NV5600 with 4.10s. That would put you at about 63mph at 2K rpm. At a perfectly practical interstate speed of 70mph you're at 2200 rpm. That's not that bad at all, and right in the sweet spot of engine power for towing-- as it was designed.
Ride comfort is subjective, but I'd challenge that one, too. Under certain kinds of conditions (small imperfections), the larger tires will ride better. But over very harsh pavement or big bumps, the unsprung weight of the larger 22.5s will ride very harshly. Take those 22.5s off road on some hard-packed dirt rut roads and your kidneys might be begging for replacement. Washboard would probably be really bad.
All else being equal, the factory tire wins a braking contest. The factory tire wins an accleration contest. The factory tire wins a towing-uphill accleration contest. The factory tire rides better on imperfect pavement.
I'm not sure where it got lost in translation, but TIRES ARE A WEAR ITEM. I'm not sure I see the point of 500K mile tires on a truck that most people will get rid of before it hits 100K. A hot-shotter MIGHT be a canditate for the big rubber, but they are one of the only people for whom it would be an option that would make sense. They are always on the hwy, accumulating lots of miles. They use their trucks like miniature 18-wheelers, so it makes sense that 22.5s would work well since they are doing what they are designed to do.
But unless you put on 2K miles a week in an max-load condition, the 22.5s are not the best fit for the operating profile of a light truck, especially a 4x4..
JMO
25K for factory rubber? I say you have a tire defect or truck problem (alignment, etc). I don't know what you guys are getting with the good-for-a-year OEM tires, but the factory Michelins will typically do at least 40K-- sometimes double that. And $1K for 4 new shoes is too high, even with premium rubber. Heck, I can get premium 315s for that, never mind the stock 265 size. Needless to say, your pessimistic appraisal of the oem cost profile improperly creates that impression that the larger tires have a favorable cost profile.
Moreover, if you are getting bad mileage at 80mph, it's because your going too fast in a vehicle with bad aerodynamics
. Of course your engine is turning higher RPM-- it's not designed to run 80mph empty, it's designed to pull 65mph loaded, which it will do very nicely.If a person is spinning their engine 2400-3000 rpm in their typical usage, they made a poor choice of options or gearing or both. Maybe they're still just driving too fast. The G56 with 3.73s is about the same overall gearing as an NV5600 with 4.10s. That would put you at about 63mph at 2K rpm. At a perfectly practical interstate speed of 70mph you're at 2200 rpm. That's not that bad at all, and right in the sweet spot of engine power for towing-- as it was designed.
Ride comfort is subjective, but I'd challenge that one, too. Under certain kinds of conditions (small imperfections), the larger tires will ride better. But over very harsh pavement or big bumps, the unsprung weight of the larger 22.5s will ride very harshly. Take those 22.5s off road on some hard-packed dirt rut roads and your kidneys might be begging for replacement. Washboard would probably be really bad.
All else being equal, the factory tire wins a braking contest. The factory tire wins an accleration contest. The factory tire wins a towing-uphill accleration contest. The factory tire rides better on imperfect pavement.
I'm not sure where it got lost in translation, but TIRES ARE A WEAR ITEM. I'm not sure I see the point of 500K mile tires on a truck that most people will get rid of before it hits 100K. A hot-shotter MIGHT be a canditate for the big rubber, but they are one of the only people for whom it would be an option that would make sense. They are always on the hwy, accumulating lots of miles. They use their trucks like miniature 18-wheelers, so it makes sense that 22.5s would work well since they are doing what they are designed to do.
But unless you put on 2K miles a week in an max-load condition, the 22.5s are not the best fit for the operating profile of a light truck, especially a 4x4..
JMO
10-29-2007 | 03:48 PM
#49
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From: Germany
Rodboy,
My truck is a 4 x 4 as in my sig. See Troy Tremelens in Pa. super guy, great support. He answered all my questions and convinced me the 22.5 mod works. I have no experience with 2wd, but he does.
Hohn,
Well written opinion. It's clear I can't convince you, but you sound like a reasonable guy. So take my challenge and drive a truck with the wheels and see for yourself. Then get back to the forum and tell us about your experience. You would be more than welcome to drive mine, but Germany is a way to travel for a test, but with the autobahn here you could give it a real test. Over here VWs go by you so fast they suck your door handles off. I have a real blast with the Mecedes Sprinters. They can really go fast, but now, so can I. It is a trip when I'm running on cruise control at 80 MPH with a sprinter flashing his lights to pass and we hit a hill. I see my EGT rise, my boost pressure rises, the exhaust note changes a bit and I rocket up the hill at 80 and leave the Sprinters in my exhaust. Last summer i drove my truck from Germany across the Alps down to Viareggio on the western side of the Italian boot. What a trip with a dually. It certainly got attention everywhere. The truck handled like a sports car on those winding roads. The altitude change had no effect on its performance. As a side note, I got 15.7 mpg there and back. (I didn't have the wheels then) I'd really like to do the trip again with them and see the difference.
Steve
My truck is a 4 x 4 as in my sig. See Troy Tremelens in Pa. super guy, great support. He answered all my questions and convinced me the 22.5 mod works. I have no experience with 2wd, but he does.
Hohn,
Well written opinion. It's clear I can't convince you, but you sound like a reasonable guy. So take my challenge and drive a truck with the wheels and see for yourself. Then get back to the forum and tell us about your experience. You would be more than welcome to drive mine, but Germany is a way to travel for a test, but with the autobahn here you could give it a real test. Over here VWs go by you so fast they suck your door handles off. I have a real blast with the Mecedes Sprinters. They can really go fast, but now, so can I. It is a trip when I'm running on cruise control at 80 MPH with a sprinter flashing his lights to pass and we hit a hill. I see my EGT rise, my boost pressure rises, the exhaust note changes a bit and I rocket up the hill at 80 and leave the Sprinters in my exhaust. Last summer i drove my truck from Germany across the Alps down to Viareggio on the western side of the Italian boot. What a trip with a dually. It certainly got attention everywhere. The truck handled like a sports car on those winding roads. The altitude change had no effect on its performance. As a side note, I got 15.7 mpg there and back. (I didn't have the wheels then) I'd really like to do the trip again with them and see the difference.
Steve
10-29-2007 | 06:05 PM
#50
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From: Cummins Technical Center, IN
Well, living in Germany and driving on the Autobahn changes the calculus considerably, imo. Gearing for higher speeds without having to run off-road tires is a struggle. Once you get into bigger rubber, it's hard to find milder, hwy-friendly tread or tread that's not super wide. In this case, the larger commercial rubber might be your ONLY choice, even if it's not a good choice.
No one likes getting blasted by when you're going 130 clicks and some guy thinks that's way too slow.
I spent a little time at Aviano a few summers ago-- driving the roads up around the Dolomites was neat...
I would rather ridden them on a great motorcycle, though...
Justin
No one likes getting blasted by when you're going 130 clicks and some guy thinks that's way too slow.
I spent a little time at Aviano a few summers ago-- driving the roads up around the Dolomites was neat...
I would rather ridden them on a great motorcycle, though...
Justin
10-29-2007 | 11:38 PM
#52
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From: Surgoinsville, Tennessee
And if the post from "performance" is alluding to me, I've never claimed to know everything about 22.5s. That, and I don't have to jump off a cliff to know it's dangerous. Reasonable people can discuss the pros and cons of certain modifications, the principles behind them, and the areas where actuality differs from theory. That's what we're doiing here.
From an engineering standpoint, yeah you're probably right. But, from a real time standpoint, it's totally different. I didn't do my conversion for anything other than looks anyway. So, the look of the conversion outweighed all of the cons for me. I will say there is nothing dangerous about this setup in any way. You are not going to break anything and the truck is very capable of handling it. Again, if I was just using it to gain MPGs, I wouldn't do it. But, for the added looks, it's sweet. So in the end, I guess it just depends on personal preferences.
10-29-2007 | 11:43 PM
#53
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From: Cummins Technical Center, IN
I agree that the looks are killer. Since you don't mind the cons, you are a perfect candidate for the big rubber.
I'm not trying to be a jerk about all this (though it may come too easily), I'm just hoping the people can see ALL of the picture of 22.5s. It's pretty easy to get blinded by the light, so to speak-- they DO look sweet!
I'm not trying to be a jerk about all this (though it may come too easily), I'm just hoping the people can see ALL of the picture of 22.5s. It's pretty easy to get blinded by the light, so to speak-- they DO look sweet!
10-30-2007 | 12:24 AM
#54
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Should I have 4.10 gears? Or 3.73's, in my 04.5?
Theres no glove box tag, and I got a sheet from the dealer that has all the options for my truck, .....and it doesnt say.
Im at 67-68 mph, ay 2000 rpms, with stock wheels and tires. What gearing is that?
Theres no glove box tag, and I got a sheet from the dealer that has all the options for my truck, .....and it doesnt say.
Im at 67-68 mph, ay 2000 rpms, with stock wheels and tires. What gearing is that?
10-30-2007 | 01:23 AM
#55
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From: Cummins Technical Center, IN
Since you have an 04.5, you'd have the trust NV5600 6-speed, not the later G56. That means you could have either the 3.73s or the 4.10, while the G56 is ONLY offered with the 3.73s.
If you are at 67-68mph with the stock wheels and tires, you have the 3.73 gears, which is a pretty good overall combo with the stock size tires. You can go a little bigger on the rubber and still have good overall gearing.
If you are at 67-68mph with the stock wheels and tires, you have the 3.73 gears, which is a pretty good overall combo with the stock size tires. You can go a little bigger on the rubber and still have good overall gearing.
10-30-2007 | 05:46 AM
#56
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I still think I am getting more set on going for the 3.42 swap and changing to 285/75/17 from the 315/70/17's. This seems to offer the best option to downshift into 5th and run 55 at 2000 RPM if the need arises or 60 at 1600 RPM. Any thoughts on this??
Looks like there may be 2 sets of H2 wheels and tires for sale! One brand new set, one with 10K on them and both are the nicer chrome rims.
Looks like there may be 2 sets of H2 wheels and tires for sale! One brand new set, one with 10K on them and both are the nicer chrome rims.
10-30-2007 | 08:03 AM
#57
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Just a little note, I used to think the 3.42's would be good for an auto that pulls heavy as well.. I now have 3.42's, and I'm glad they're not in my dually. I put the 3.42's in my 06 2500 play truck. My rpm's are around 1800 at 75 mph which is great for me, yet my 05 dually loaded heavy doesn't like to see under 2000 rpm or it downshifts on slight inclines. Granted, it is now stock and has what seems to be little power.
02-01-2008 | 11:27 AM
#60
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From: Surgoinsville, Tennessee
Nothing other than they still look sweet, still ride good, and there is still no big increase in MPG. This setup is pretty heavy. I lost some MPG in town driving, but picked up the same amount I lost on highway driving. So, in the end my MPG average stayed the same as it did with the stock setup. There is no doubt someone would pick up more MPG if they drove more at highway speeds, because I can see the increase with what little highway miles I put on my truck. So, depending on driving habits, you may or may not gain MPG.
On the plus side, the 22.5s just look sweet and personally that's what it's all about.
On the plus side, the 22.5s just look sweet and personally that's what it's all about.