2 stroke Oil - Small Review
10-09-2007, 11:57 PM
#32
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I'm not sure about Motul. From what I've learned, the synthetics have additive packs in them which in turn won't burn off as cleanly in the diesel engine which I believe creates the "ash" that you don't want on your valves and injector tips. TCW-3 is cheap and Walmarnesia is pretty cheap on it, around $8 or $9 a gallon. The primairy reason the whole 2 stroke issue begins is the simple fact of adding some lubricity back to the fuel to save accelerated wear on the VP-44's and the CP-3's.
10-10-2007, 12:35 AM
#33
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Believe me you .... I am running TCW3 for sure. I know it doesnt hurt as people claim to run it for years.
My CP3 is a very expensive item. My lift pump not so much. I am getting FAsS in about a month.
My injectors like clean stuff.
My pocket likes not having to shell out for worn injectors and cp3 at 100Kmiles. I want my truck to be a 400K miler at min.
I refuse to trade my 2006 (The last good year of the B series engine besides the 2007.0)
I know.. I can see it now. All LEV diesel engines from 2008 and up. Req crappy ulsd and performance modifications are going to be quite expensive in terms of working around those gawd awful DPFs.
My CP3 is a very expensive item. My lift pump not so much. I am getting FAsS in about a month.
My injectors like clean stuff.
My pocket likes not having to shell out for worn injectors and cp3 at 100Kmiles. I want my truck to be a 400K miler at min.
I refuse to trade my 2006 (The last good year of the B series engine besides the 2007.0)
I know.. I can see it now. All LEV diesel engines from 2008 and up. Req crappy ulsd and performance modifications are going to be quite expensive in terms of working around those gawd awful DPFs.
10-10-2007, 05:45 AM
#34
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Believe me you .... I am running TCW3 for sure. I know it doesnt hurt as people claim to run it for years.
My CP3 is a very expensive item. My lift pump not so much. I am getting FAsS in about a month.
My injectors like clean stuff.
My pocket likes not having to shell out for worn injectors and cp3 at 100Kmiles. I want my truck to be a 400K miler at min.
I refuse to trade my 2006 (The last good year of the B series engine besides the 2007.0)
I know.. I can see it now. All LEV diesel engines from 2008 and up. Req crappy ulsd and performance modifications are going to be quite expensive in terms of working around those gawd awful DPFs.
My CP3 is a very expensive item. My lift pump not so much. I am getting FAsS in about a month.
My injectors like clean stuff.
My pocket likes not having to shell out for worn injectors and cp3 at 100Kmiles. I want my truck to be a 400K miler at min.
I refuse to trade my 2006 (The last good year of the B series engine besides the 2007.0)
I know.. I can see it now. All LEV diesel engines from 2008 and up. Req crappy ulsd and performance modifications are going to be quite expensive in terms of working around those gawd awful DPFs.
Just playing the devils advocate here, but how many people on any of these forums have had a pump go bad due to lack lubricity in the fuel? I have yet to see one, so that tells me that 2 stroke is not vital to saving your truck. Some additives that many use are solvents that actually REMOVE lubricity from fuel and they don't have problems.
I tried it and it didn't work out so well on my truck. Until I see it coming directly from either Cummins or Bosch that 2 stroke is a safe additive for the fuel system then I won't swear by it like so many others do. I have been begging someone to show me proof from Cummins and nobody has yet to do so.
10-10-2007, 07:06 AM
#35
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Trying additives and oil mixtures is like experimenting. What works good on one engine may have different effect on another.
I've tried Power Service/TCW3/ND30w combinations over the years and found what works best for me.
MikeyB
I've tried Power Service/TCW3/ND30w combinations over the years and found what works best for me.
MikeyB
10-10-2007, 07:52 AM
#36
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Thanks for the link. I wouldn't have thought MMO would remove lubricity from the fuel... Supprising to me that those guys would have recomended it. The tech that I talked to actually is a "certified master pump technition" and really knew what he was talking about.. Or well it seemed he did anyway!
Very interesting.. I may switch to 2 stroke oil.
Jason
Very interesting.. I may switch to 2 stroke oil.
Jason
10-10-2007, 08:16 AM
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Thanks again N.Johnson for the link! That was great reading! Nice to know that there are guys like that willing to take some time out and do somthing meaningful with lab tests and real results! I think I'll look into getting some Bio and mixing it with each tank. I know theres a station about 30 min from my house that sells it. Might be worth it to pic up a couple gallons at a time and just dump in enough to make the 2% before I fill up with #2... Even then the Wally-world oil was right at the number that the study listed for the minimum wear scar value... Not bad for $1 a tank!
Jason
Jason
10-10-2007, 11:37 PM
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vwjunkie53
That's what I get too. Simple Bio at 2% is the best lubricity agent and also cheap. I have run bio up to 40% in the past but found it reduced my mileage and always caused water bubbles in the fuel filter drain sample (FASS). However nothing makes my motor run whisper quiet like bio. My latest snake oil brew is 2stroke(16oz tank) for two tanks and then howes meaner kleaner for a tank. But putting all this additive stuff aside, the best thing for a cummins is steady work, load the truck, haul stuff, tow a couple of tons. Get the exhaust temps up above 900F and work the motor for hours. What this does is burn off the carbon and varnish deposits on the injector tips providing optimum fuel atomization/spray angle. After three plus years of happy cummins motoring/obsession this is my conclusion........enjoy
That's what I get too. Simple Bio at 2% is the best lubricity agent and also cheap. I have run bio up to 40% in the past but found it reduced my mileage and always caused water bubbles in the fuel filter drain sample (FASS). However nothing makes my motor run whisper quiet like bio. My latest snake oil brew is 2stroke(16oz tank) for two tanks and then howes meaner kleaner for a tank. But putting all this additive stuff aside, the best thing for a cummins is steady work, load the truck, haul stuff, tow a couple of tons. Get the exhaust temps up above 900F and work the motor for hours. What this does is burn off the carbon and varnish deposits on the injector tips providing optimum fuel atomization/spray angle. After three plus years of happy cummins motoring/obsession this is my conclusion........enjoy
10-11-2007, 06:56 AM
#39
Right now I am driving 100 miles round trip 2-4 times a week and I havent been keeping pin point accurate mpg records I do have a pretty good idea what kind of milage I am getting (14.3-15.0) so if I picked up one mpg I would notice it.
I will run this tank out then switch form 16oz PS to 2 stroke for a few tanks and see if there is a diff, then mix the two. I will report back with what I find.
I will run this tank out then switch form 16oz PS to 2 stroke for a few tanks and see if there is a diff, then mix the two. I will report back with what I find.
10-11-2007, 07:52 AM
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I think that link and maybe some basic info (like what NOT to use) should be made a sticky... I wouldn't have known anything about it, and wouldn't have really had any reason to bring it up since I thought MMO was good stuff to use. Just so happened that the topic was on the first page and I thought I would take a look. Could be benificial for new members to have it right there on the top of the page. Just my .02
Jason
Jason
10-11-2007, 09:52 PM
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Hey devils advocate, Cummins and Bosch aren't going to run a test to approve 2 stroke for their pumps or engines, because 2 stroke isn't listed to be a diesel engine fuel lubricant. There is a person who did post that they lost a VP-44 at 54,000 mi. on ulsd and PS, and that guy has petroleum credibility (won't say who for his own privacy), but there was proof that his pump went out due to lack of lubricity. There has to be a lot of fuel ran through an engine to get accurate results, and so far one of the longest tests, that has had no negative results has been TCW-3. It doesn't have naptha, xylene, or mineral spirits in it which are all solvents. When you have an injector pump that was designed to be lubricated with a fuel that used to have much higher lubricity than the new ulsd, thanks to the EPA, you need to replace that lost lubricity. TCW-3 overall is the most economical thing to add into your fuel and gives some pleasing results.
10-12-2007, 09:44 PM
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I was not sure what section of the forums to post this in.
First off I use PowerService Diesel Kleen so I am sure there is an added benefit.
I went to wallyworld and purchased some generic house brand 16oz bottle of non synthetic Low emissions 2 stroke engine oil (the kind you mix wth gasoline).
I then added all 16oz to my fuel tank at 1/4 tank of fuel. I then proceeded to activate the green handle and filled er' up with some High Quality ULSD
There was no hand calculation involved in any of this. Just the trusty ole super highly calibrated and accurate overhead console economy readout. LOL
My before the oil normal 1900 RPM cruising on the highway economy read about 19.5-20.5 depending on whatever it depends on that day.
My after the oil was added 1900 RPM cruising on the highway economy read up to a max of 23.2 mpg.
This was on a 450 mile trip to from Alabama to Atlanta and back.
WOWSERS ! I didn't reset or touch anything. All I did was add it and drive it.
I know that the little overhead console is very inaccurate to say the least, but for it to make a 3mpg difference wow is all I can say.
As I stated before this could be a factor of the PS Diesel Kleen, but I doubt it. I didnt get that kind of mileage increase on PS DK like I did when I added 2 stroke oil.
Oh yeah! I had nothing in my bed and nothing on the ball.
Even driving around the city has gotten an increase but I am not going to go over that.
Thanks
Hope this helps spawn a huge investigation into the benefits of 2 stroke oil for those who may not have read any other topics on this matter.
First off I use PowerService Diesel Kleen so I am sure there is an added benefit.
I went to wallyworld and purchased some generic house brand 16oz bottle of non synthetic Low emissions 2 stroke engine oil (the kind you mix wth gasoline).
I then added all 16oz to my fuel tank at 1/4 tank of fuel. I then proceeded to activate the green handle and filled er' up with some High Quality ULSD
There was no hand calculation involved in any of this. Just the trusty ole super highly calibrated and accurate overhead console economy readout. LOL
My before the oil normal 1900 RPM cruising on the highway economy read about 19.5-20.5 depending on whatever it depends on that day.
My after the oil was added 1900 RPM cruising on the highway economy read up to a max of 23.2 mpg.
This was on a 450 mile trip to from Alabama to Atlanta and back.
WOWSERS ! I didn't reset or touch anything. All I did was add it and drive it.
I know that the little overhead console is very inaccurate to say the least, but for it to make a 3mpg difference wow is all I can say.
As I stated before this could be a factor of the PS Diesel Kleen, but I doubt it. I didnt get that kind of mileage increase on PS DK like I did when I added 2 stroke oil.
Oh yeah! I had nothing in my bed and nothing on the ball.
Even driving around the city has gotten an increase but I am not going to go over that.
Thanks
Hope this helps spawn a huge investigation into the benefits of 2 stroke oil for those who may not have read any other topics on this matter.
I started using 2 cycle oil at 85K miles and got the ratio of mixing figured out by 95K miles and wham! the numbers started improving majorly... It even reduced the cost per mile for my truck. It one year I just saved $600 roughly in fuel..
10-13-2007, 02:05 AM
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Wow that is really nice research and the way you charted it.
I think I am going to stop using PS now. I noticed that I put it in a dry wallyworld brand water bottle after measuring 10oz. I only used the plastic bottle transport the PS from the big 1gal jug to my F. Tank. After forgetting to dump in the additive because my dog kept insisting I throw the ball to him a few times, I went back out and to my utter surprise the PS Dkleen started to eat the plastic out and there were little pieces of bottle floating around inside the drinking water bottle.
I don't think that a neutral (Ph level) additive would do that, which tells me that PS DK is a solvent of some kind. I know for a fact that (red LS Diesel) sitting on my shelf in the same bottle isn't eating the bottle at all. I use the red diesel on some of the farm equipment we cut and bale hay with (NOT MY TRUCK).
So to not go off on a tangent, I am trying to say that I believe that of all these additives I could be wasting money on, the 2-stroke TCW-3 is only $8.95 a gallon at walmart and I bet this is all I need to give the lubricity back that ULSD lacks.
I think I am going to stop using PS now. I noticed that I put it in a dry wallyworld brand water bottle after measuring 10oz. I only used the plastic bottle transport the PS from the big 1gal jug to my F. Tank. After forgetting to dump in the additive because my dog kept insisting I throw the ball to him a few times, I went back out and to my utter surprise the PS Dkleen started to eat the plastic out and there were little pieces of bottle floating around inside the drinking water bottle.
I don't think that a neutral (Ph level) additive would do that, which tells me that PS DK is a solvent of some kind. I know for a fact that (red LS Diesel) sitting on my shelf in the same bottle isn't eating the bottle at all. I use the red diesel on some of the farm equipment we cut and bale hay with (NOT MY TRUCK).
So to not go off on a tangent, I am trying to say that I believe that of all these additives I could be wasting money on, the 2-stroke TCW-3 is only $8.95 a gallon at walmart and I bet this is all I need to give the lubricity back that ULSD lacks.
10-13-2007, 08:45 AM
#45
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It had negative effects on my truck when I tried it, and many others here had the same results. To me, that clearly says that this should not be touted as being a miracle like so many here seem to do just because it "worked" for them.
If it is so good, then when are we going to see DC, Cummins or Bosch endorse it? If it adds to the life of the fuel system then I would at least expect Bosch to recommend it. That's all I'm getting at. I have had a couple of Cummins techs tell me that it's not a good idea to do this on the HPCR engines. That said, if it works for you then that's great and I don't blame you for doing it. I just want to hear it straight from the horses mouth, and when I do then I will use it even if it does kill my mpg. Until then, I'm sticking with what the Cummins techs have told me over what I read on the net.
If it is so good, then when are we going to see DC, Cummins or Bosch endorse it? If it adds to the life of the fuel system then I would at least expect Bosch to recommend it. That's all I'm getting at. I have had a couple of Cummins techs tell me that it's not a good idea to do this on the HPCR engines. That said, if it works for you then that's great and I don't blame you for doing it. I just want to hear it straight from the horses mouth, and when I do then I will use it even if it does kill my mpg. Until then, I'm sticking with what the Cummins techs have told me over what I read on the net.