The rest of the story
11-10-2007 | 10:35 AM
#16
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Ok, am I the only person reading this thread that wants clarification on the "urea" aspect of this equation? At the risk of sounding idiotic, am I correct in assuming someone injects some kind of "pee" into the exhaust? Or is urea some other kind of material or is it an acronym for something?
Had to ask.
Had to ask.
11-10-2007 | 01:56 PM
#17
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From: Winchester, TN
No that's what it is. The kind they use isn't from humans though. From what i gather it's created sort of as a byproduct or residual waste, no pun intended, from other industries and relatively abundant. In Europe they already have NOx emissions standards on par with what our diesels will have to meet in 2010 and the easiest way engineers found to reduce NOx was to inject small amounts of urea into the exhaust before it exits the pipe. That's how they do it over there and that's how Cat, Detroit, Volvo and others planned on doing it here. What that means is in addition to buying diesel fuel a person will have a small urea tank that has to be topped off as well because as I posted earlier you'll burn about a gallon of urea for every 100 gallons of diesel burned. Cummins has decided to go with exhaust gas recirculation and diesel particulate filters on their heavy duty engines so they can meet the 2010 requirements without injecting urea into the exhaust. Cummins is way ahead of the curve on emissions.
11-10-2007 | 04:45 PM
#18
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From: Idaho Falls, ID
http://www.glgroup.com/News/Give-***...egy-17508.html
The above link explains how Cummins will use the emission credits from the 6.7 pickups.
The above link explains how Cummins will use the emission credits from the 6.7 pickups.
11-10-2007 | 05:22 PM
#20
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From: Idaho Falls, ID
No problem! The thing that really bothers me is that the owners of the 6.7 pickups have a reduced emission warrantee (5 yrs 50,000 miles) verses the (5 yr 100,000 miles) of the 6.7 CC. Their mpg takes a hit, and when that very expensive collection of cats and DPF die after 50,000 miles the bill will be on their ticket ($x,000?) with Cummins and Chrysler laughing all the way to the bank.
11-11-2007 | 12:37 AM
#22
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No that's what it is. The kind they use isn't from humans though. From what i gather it's created sort of as a byproduct or residual waste, no pun intended, from other industries and relatively abundant. In Europe they already have NOx emissions standards on par with what our diesels will have to meet in 2010 and the easiest way engineers found to reduce NOx was to inject small amounts of urea into the exhaust before it exits the pipe. That's how they do it over there and that's how Cat, Detroit, Volvo and others planned on doing it here. What that means is in addition to buying diesel fuel a person will have a small urea tank that has to be topped off as well because as I posted earlier you'll burn about a gallon of urea for every 100 gallons of diesel burned. Cummins has decided to go with exhaust gas recirculation and diesel particulate filters on their heavy duty engines so they can meet the 2010 requirements without injecting urea into the exhaust. Cummins is way ahead of the curve on emissions.
11-11-2007 | 09:38 AM
#23
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From: Rogers, Arkansas
No problem! The thing that really bothers me is that the owners of the 6.7 pickups have a reduced emission warrantee (5 yrs 50,000 miles) verses the (5 yr 100,000 miles) of the 6.7 CC. Their mpg takes a hit, and when that very expensive collection of cats and DPF die after 50,000 miles the bill will be on their ticket ($x,000?) with Cummins and Chrysler laughing all the way to the bank.
11-11-2007 | 08:37 PM
#24
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I'd toss that Diesel Progress or whatever it is in the garbage where it belongs. There are no loopholes in the 2010 federal emissions standards for diesel engines everyone HAS to meet them. They're not using urea as an aftertreatment because of distribution concerns. Iit takes one gallon of urea injected into the exhaust to treat NOX for every 100 gallons of diesel you burn. You ever seen a urea pump before? Neither have I. Pretty smart on Cummins part I think. Here's the real scoop on ISX, ISM Cummins meeting the 2010 requierments:
http://www.landlinemag.com/todays_ne.../092407-05.htm
Cummins ready for California APU and EPA emission requirements NASHVILLE, TN –
At a press conference just before the fall meeting of the Technology & Maintenance Council here, Cummins Inc. officials announced that their on-highway diesel engines produced after Jan. 1, 2008, will meet the California Air Resources Board clean-idle standards.
Those standards require manufacturers to have either tamper-proof and non-programmable idle shutdown timers or engines that produce less than 30 grams of nitrogen oxide, or NOx per hour.
The 2008 Cummins engines produce less NOx qualifying them to be certified, company officials said. The regulations allow such engines to idle indefinitely, according to a Cummins press statement. Cummins officials said this as an advantage to single drivers who currently idle for cab climate control and to produce electricity to power “hotel loads.”
Also, Cummins officials announced that the company’s ComfortGuard auxiliary power units will meet CARB regulations requiring APUs and generators to have either stand-alone diesel particulate filters on APU diesel engines or to route the APU exhaust through the DPF of the engine. Cummins will make both options available.
No urea needed
Cummins officials also dropped a bombshell on the diesel engine industry, announcing that their ISM and ISX engines will meet 2010 emissions standards without the need for separate after-treatment for NOx.
To date, other engine manufacturers have said their strategies will use catalytic reduction to convert nitrogen oxides to nitrogen and oxygen, the major components of air. That strategy requires the use of urea, commonly used in Europe to meet the latest European standards. It calls for the purchase of a second liquid when fueling and the hardware associated with urea storage and injection.
Cummins will meet the 2010 standards using their High Pressure Common Rail fuel system, next-generation cooled exhaust gas recirculation, advanced electronic controls, air handling with their variable geometry turbocharger and the Cummins Particulate Filter. No urea or its associated equipment will be needed. They also announced that it will introduce an 11.9-liter and a 16-liter engine to complement the current 15-liter ISX.
http://www.landlinemag.com/todays_ne.../092407-05.htm
Cummins ready for California APU and EPA emission requirements NASHVILLE, TN –
At a press conference just before the fall meeting of the Technology & Maintenance Council here, Cummins Inc. officials announced that their on-highway diesel engines produced after Jan. 1, 2008, will meet the California Air Resources Board clean-idle standards.
Those standards require manufacturers to have either tamper-proof and non-programmable idle shutdown timers or engines that produce less than 30 grams of nitrogen oxide, or NOx per hour.
The 2008 Cummins engines produce less NOx qualifying them to be certified, company officials said. The regulations allow such engines to idle indefinitely, according to a Cummins press statement. Cummins officials said this as an advantage to single drivers who currently idle for cab climate control and to produce electricity to power “hotel loads.”
Also, Cummins officials announced that the company’s ComfortGuard auxiliary power units will meet CARB regulations requiring APUs and generators to have either stand-alone diesel particulate filters on APU diesel engines or to route the APU exhaust through the DPF of the engine. Cummins will make both options available.
No urea needed
Cummins officials also dropped a bombshell on the diesel engine industry, announcing that their ISM and ISX engines will meet 2010 emissions standards without the need for separate after-treatment for NOx.
To date, other engine manufacturers have said their strategies will use catalytic reduction to convert nitrogen oxides to nitrogen and oxygen, the major components of air. That strategy requires the use of urea, commonly used in Europe to meet the latest European standards. It calls for the purchase of a second liquid when fueling and the hardware associated with urea storage and injection.
Cummins will meet the 2010 standards using their High Pressure Common Rail fuel system, next-generation cooled exhaust gas recirculation, advanced electronic controls, air handling with their variable geometry turbocharger and the Cummins Particulate Filter. No urea or its associated equipment will be needed. They also announced that it will introduce an 11.9-liter and a 16-liter engine to complement the current 15-liter ISX.
I wonder if it is just like them saying that the 07 HDD engines were going to get worse fuel milage with all of the emmisions equipment on them but instead they are getting 1-2% better fuel economy out of them.
All I have to say is that you should hold onto your seats because it is going to get very interesting for the 2010 emmsions.
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