Wix fuel filters or Dodge
03-05-2009 | 01:14 PM
#61
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
From: Southeast Texas
[Today I found a PDF on the Fleetguard site warning their customers against using certain Baldwin filters. Basically, they warned that the Baldwins they tested did not meet Fleetguard's specifications and were not a suitable replacement, despite Baldwin advertising them as replacing the Fleetguards.
To me, that's a whole bunch of strikes against Baldwin. I won't touch them.[/QUOTE]
Do you happen to have a link to this PDF?
PS. Just looking for information, not trying to get into the filter fray.
To me, that's a whole bunch of strikes against Baldwin. I won't touch them.[/QUOTE]
Do you happen to have a link to this PDF?
PS. Just looking for information, not trying to get into the filter fray.
03-05-2009 | 01:27 PM
#62
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
From: The South
03-05-2009 | 03:29 PM
#65
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,737
Likes: 4
From: Kuna, Idaho
Thank you for the TSB. However, it does not speak to model years prior to 2006, and not even to all 2006 models. Also, it does not state that Mopar part number 05015581ab has been superseded by anything. In fact, the 2007 Mopar Filter Application Guide (latest available on the web) still lists 05015581ab as the appropriate part number for model years 2000-2002, 2005, and 2006.
I have not been able to find anything on the web that officially says the 05015581ab has been superseded. What I have found are numerous private statements in various forums that a Fleetguard filter that the Mopar filter crosses to has been superseded by another Fleetguard product, but nothing from Chrysler themselves.
Again, if Chrysler is denying warranty coverage for anyone who has a CTD equipped truck that calls for the 05015581ab filter simply because it has a Wix in it, they appear to be in violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
Now, a question. Did Bosch state that their HPCR equipment requires a 5 micron filter for all Dodge models years, or just the '06 models onward?
Lastly, something about Baldwin filters. I try to run Wix filters exclusively. However, when I tried to cross one oddball tractor filter to Wix, I had no luck. But Baldwin did have cross reference and listed a filter for the application. I was suspicious that Baldwin would have a filter when Wix did not and carefully checked their specs against those of the equipment manufacturer. The Baldwin filter did not meet the specs, despite their listing it as doing so.
Today I found a PDF on the Fleetguard site warning their customers against using certain Baldwin filters. Basically, they warned that the Baldwins they tested did not meet Fleetguard's specifications and were not a suitable replacement, despite Baldwin advertising them as replacing the Fleetguards.
To me, that's a whole bunch of strikes against Baldwin. I won't touch them.
I have not been able to find anything on the web that officially says the 05015581ab has been superseded. What I have found are numerous private statements in various forums that a Fleetguard filter that the Mopar filter crosses to has been superseded by another Fleetguard product, but nothing from Chrysler themselves.
Again, if Chrysler is denying warranty coverage for anyone who has a CTD equipped truck that calls for the 05015581ab filter simply because it has a Wix in it, they appear to be in violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
Now, a question. Did Bosch state that their HPCR equipment requires a 5 micron filter for all Dodge models years, or just the '06 models onward?
Lastly, something about Baldwin filters. I try to run Wix filters exclusively. However, when I tried to cross one oddball tractor filter to Wix, I had no luck. But Baldwin did have cross reference and listed a filter for the application. I was suspicious that Baldwin would have a filter when Wix did not and carefully checked their specs against those of the equipment manufacturer. The Baldwin filter did not meet the specs, despite their listing it as doing so.
Today I found a PDF on the Fleetguard site warning their customers against using certain Baldwin filters. Basically, they warned that the Baldwins they tested did not meet Fleetguard's specifications and were not a suitable replacement, despite Baldwin advertising them as replacing the Fleetguards.
To me, that's a whole bunch of strikes against Baldwin. I won't touch them.
First off.. nothing changed in the late 06 HPCR system, NOTHING... The system is the same for an 04.5 as an 07, heck really even a 03 (just the programing and tips are different)... so the TSB on filtration can be pushed back to the 03.. Reasons why Chrysler didn't are unknown and have been asked in several threads. Guess are so that they could deplete their stock of 10mic filters.
Have you called any dealerships looking for the 10mic? I have, they all listed the 7 mic as the replacement, none of them carry the 10 mic anymore.
Fleetguard is Mopar when it comes to the Cummins..
You didn't read the fleetguard online cross-reference very well.. Yes it list the 05015581AB for the 05-06.. but scroll down a few lines and it lists the 68001914AA for 03-07. I would guess that the 05-06 part was missed on revision and not removed.
Yes there are certain Baldwin filters that do not meet Fleetguard spec. Baldwin has gone to a multi-pass rating on their fuel filters (don't ask why, they are the only ones). So I got the J1985 single pass specs for some commonly used Baldwin filters.
SAE J1985 Testing of Baldwin filters (single-pass)
PF7977 – 99.24% @ 5 micron
BF7633 – 99.22% @ 7 Micron
BF1212 – 97.88% @ 20 Micron
On the published ratings (which are multi-pass) Baldwin rates them at
PF7977 5mic
BF7633 5mic
BF1212 (not listed in the data I have)
As you can see the BF7633 is not as good as claimed, but the PF7977 is just as good.
Trust me I have countless hours into filtration info for the HPCR. There are two filters that can be verifed to meet spec, OEM and the Baldwin..
Run your 05 on old filters if you want, but remember you have an identical system to an 07, and they require a 7mic and Bosch wants a 5mic on all HPCR's, 03-07 (not sure on the 6.7, but an assumption would be 5mic on them as well)..
Magnuson-Moss isn't relevant if your using a filter that doesn't meet published specs... You can't even verify if the WIX meets the 10mic specs because WIX won't list absolute ratings.. and they get pissy when you ask for the and ask why they don't use them... really pissy.. they start beating around the bush and claim the nominal is good enough.. They told me that 7 microns is really small and catching a nominal amount of particles would suffice... Ha.. I asked him what kind of damage a 7mic particle could do at 23K psi and hung-up.
You have the facts, run whatever you want...
03-05-2009 | 04:03 PM
#66
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,737
Likes: 4
From: Kuna, Idaho
So I just found out there is 1 more option for filtration that meets OE spec. The Donaldson P550800.
It was not available when I did all the research and they were not sure when one would be (In fact I let Donaldson know of the new requirements last summer)
It was not available when I did all the research and they were not sure when one would be (In fact I let Donaldson know of the new requirements last summer)
03-05-2009 | 07:52 PM
#68
Banned
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,421
Likes: 1
From: Colorado
Filter manufacturers are under no legal or fiduciary requirement to any OEM or any government regulated body to do or say anything about their filters. Trust who you want, Fleetgaurd, Wix, Dieseltruckresource.com, whatever.
03-05-2009 | 08:49 PM
#69
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,737
Likes: 4
From: Kuna, Idaho
There is no "industry standard." There is something called filtercouncil.org that would like to think so, or think they are setting the standard, but that is nonsense. Why do you think we have Fleetgaurd challenging Baldwin, Chrysler issuing confusing information and nobody agreeing on exactly what is what?
Filter manufacturers are under no legal or fiduciary requirement to any OEM or any government regulated body to do or say anything about their filters. Trust who you want, Fleetgaurd, Wix, Dieseltruckresource.com, whatever.
Filter manufacturers are under no legal or fiduciary requirement to any OEM or any government regulated body to do or say anything about their filters. Trust who you want, Fleetgaurd, Wix, Dieseltruckresource.com, whatever.
But believe what you want.. if you want to run an inferior filter to save a few pennies be my guest...
Even if nominal may be better that 50%, its not 98.7% and 7 microns at 98.7% is what Dodge/Cummins requires.
03-05-2009 | 09:16 PM
#70
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 1
From: Delaware
03-06-2009 | 08:34 AM
#72
Banned
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,421
Likes: 1
From: Colorado
Been running Wix in a wide variety of machinery and vehicles almost exclusively for literally decades. Never a problem.
BTW, Wix makes a clone of the vaunted "2um Cat" filter that is literally identical to it right down to the filter media, pressure and efficiency ratings. Costs a bit less, tho.
BTW, Wix makes a clone of the vaunted "2um Cat" filter that is literally identical to it right down to the filter media, pressure and efficiency ratings. Costs a bit less, tho.
03-06-2009 | 08:50 AM
#73
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,737
Likes: 4
From: Kuna, Idaho
Been running Wix in a wide variety of machinery and vehicles almost exclusively for literally decades. Never a problem.
BTW, Wix makes a clone of the vaunted "2um Cat" filter that is literally identical to it right down to the filter media, pressure and efficiency ratings. Costs a bit less, tho.
BTW, Wix makes a clone of the vaunted "2um Cat" filter that is literally identical to it right down to the filter media, pressure and efficiency ratings. Costs a bit less, tho.
Yes they do, they rate it at 2um nominal.. who knows what the absolute rating is.
Something else I find interesting about WIX is that their flow rates are always higher than the OEM.. Take the FS1212 Fleetguard rates it at 89.8 GPH, Wix rates their 33405 at 720 GPH.. Hmm a cheaper filter filtering at the same efficiency at a higher rate, an 8x higher rate?? Doubt it.
03-06-2009 | 09:07 AM
#74
Banned
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,421
Likes: 1
From: Colorado
Who knows what the "real" performance of any filter is?
Hint: Nobody. Except possibly the production engineers working at the major manufacturers. There's alot of people out there that think they know more about it than anyone else because they read alot of marketing literature and research things on the web.
I'll continue trusting the engineers at one of the biggest, oldest most successful companies in the business that does most of their own manufacturing in this country, and NONE in China.
Hint: Nobody. Except possibly the production engineers working at the major manufacturers. There's alot of people out there that think they know more about it than anyone else because they read alot of marketing literature and research things on the web.
I'll continue trusting the engineers at one of the biggest, oldest most successful companies in the business that does most of their own manufacturing in this country, and NONE in China.
03-06-2009 | 09:12 AM
#75
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,737
Likes: 4
From: Kuna, Idaho
Who knows what the "real" performance of any filter is?
Hint: Nobody. Except possibly the production engineers working at the major manufacturers. There's alot of people out there that think they know more about it than anyone else because they read alot of marketing literature and research things on the web.
I'll continue trusting the engineers at one of the biggest, oldest most successful companies in the business that does most of their own manufacturing in this country, and NONE in China.
Hint: Nobody. Except possibly the production engineers working at the major manufacturers. There's alot of people out there that think they know more about it than anyone else because they read alot of marketing literature and research things on the web.
I'll continue trusting the engineers at one of the biggest, oldest most successful companies in the business that does most of their own manufacturing in this country, and NONE in China.
You can run what you want, but if you have a fuel issue good luck getting the J1985 data from Wix to prove their filter is adequate.
If WIX publishes that info then fine, until then the only data they provide suggests they do not meet the OE spec.
It sounds to me like your trying to justify saving a few bucks, regardless of the data.. so convince yourself all you want, its your truck...