You're welcome! Glad you got some more info.

 

OK, no vacuum pump.

WIll truck still run without wastegate plugged in? Since I have an 03 turbo, it doesn't have elec wastegate...has manual wastegete, so all that should be fine, UNLESS ECM goes nuts and cuts fuel becuz it doesn't see wastegate plugged in?????

 

OK, another one.

Now that we have figured out the 2 pigtail as being for elec wastegate, and my turbo doesn't have elec waste gate. Any of you know what I can expect? Will the truck drive? Sputter? Or no effect on my manual wastegate setup?


2nd....I've got a TST-R programmer for my 03-04 CTD....OBVIOUSLY they sell different models for different year model CTD, and I KNOW the '04.5 is a different setup.
However, after plugging in all of the sensors (except the wastegate pigtail, since I don't have an elec wastegate, and the 4 pin down by headlights), I pretty much thought...well, ALL of the sensors are the same.
If the injector electronics are the same, then why WOULDNT the TST-R work on the '04.5 ECM?

So, I plugged the TST-R into my '04.5 ECM and '03 motor/injectors/turbo, and had prolonged crank time, and then finally fired up...rough idle for few seconds, smoothed out, then kind of choked, popped, and quit. I didn't try to restart it.
At the time, here is what was unplugged:

Elec wastegate pigtail
4 pin pigtail, down by drivers side head light/foglight area
Elec clutch fan
and the CTS. I had to order a new Coolant Temp Sensor, and hasn't gotten here yet, so that pigtail was left unplugged as well.


So, anyone have an idea on why my truck ran like that/died? The other night, by just taking the '03 harness, and plugging in the '04.5 ECM, truck started up, ran fine/perfect.
BUt now that I have the '04.5 harness on truck, and all these empty pigtails, and '04.5 ECM on the truck, she doesn't want to fire off/run.

Just curiuous if it was empty pigtails that caused this, the TST-R programmer, or both?!?!?!?

I'll probably just yank TST-R off, just to eliminate all variables at this point, but figured I'd still ask you guys what you thought.

So, any of you know about those pigtails I mentioned and truck not running right? Thanks again!

 

I'd unhook program thing. The sensors may be the same, doubt the ecm is the same.

 

Glad to hear you are making progress.

I highly recommend that you do NOT install the TST interceptor module at all, ever.

1st, get the engine running properly stock. Adding the TST module & harness will just add variables you don't want at this point.
2nd, the 2003-2004 TST module will not work with the 2004.5 & newer ECM and harness.
3rd, old school interceptor boxes are no longer the way to go to increase engine performance. Re-programming the ECM makes for safer and more reliable power with less problems.
Who wants that TST harness mess in their engine bay anyway.


The 2004.5 electronic turbo wastegate will set a CEL if not plugged in.
There are numerous companies that make a wastegate fooler exactly for this purpose when the stock 2004.5+ turbo is replaced with an aftermarket turbo. All it is a 100 OHM resistor.

Here is one. I've had the ATS wastegate fooler on my truck for over 5 years.
Do not confuse this with a boost fooler which is not the same.

http://www.dieselpowerproducts.com/p...ins-iisbf.aspx


2004.5+ engines have an electronically controlled engine fan but the 2003-04 engines don't. The electronically controlled fan is superior but more complex.
Not having the electronic fan clutch connected to the 2004.5 ECM will definitely cause CEL's and possibly even limp mode.
You may have to purchase a 2004.5+ clutch fan and harness which will not be cheap even used.

Which APPS are you using? There are 2 versions for these trucks. Mounted on the engine or mounted under the battery.
They are different and not compatible but I'm not sure if they use the same harness.

If you don't already have one, you are going to need a OBDII handheld scanner to read the exact DTC codes and clear them as you progress.
They are not expensive and you can use them on all the vehicles in your fleet.


I have a 2004.5 engine and truck and am willing to check my harness if you have more questions, once I get back home.

 

Reading your posts again:

1. You have a 2003 Dodge Cummins truck with an auto trans.
2. You have a 2003 Cummins Engine.
3. You have a 2003 Cummins engine wiring harness.

You are installing the 2003 engine in the 2003 truck with a 2004.5 ECU and 2004.5 engine harness?

Is the above correct?


If yes, why not install the 2003 engine harness and purchase a 2003 engine ECM?

 

Thanks for the input and I'll try to answer your questions/reply to your statements.

The TST was on that '03 motor for 4-5 years, and never had a problem. Was very happy with it. That being said, yes, I will take it off, and try and get truck running in stock mode. What made me think that I COULD use the TST, was when I first unplugged the '03 ECM, and plugged the '04.5 ECM (and again, using '03 harness, with TST still hooked up), I started truck and it ran smooth/fine.

So, once I saw that the '04.5 ECM would run that motor, I stripped '03 harness (and TST) off, installed '04.5 harness...and now in hindsight, I should have just left TST off and tried getting running stock instead of adding ANOTHER variable. Guess I was pushing my luck.


The plug for elec wastegate....I had heard about that, and I appreciate the info. I'm gonna have to get one, because right now, a '04.5 turbo is not in the works, and obviously it's just cheaper to go the route you mentioned.


The '03 motor DOES have an electronically controlled viscous fan though, that I know. It's got the harness for the clutch, but the plug came out on passengers side. The ONLY thing I had noticed when I unplugged that when the '03 motor was up and running in the other truck, was my AC compressor would not kick on at idle. Once I sped up.started driving, AC worked just fine. Never got any SES lights or any problems with motor.

That being said, I looked into the '04.5 elec clutch and ITS ALOT cheaper than the '03 model clutch fan (so, there IS a big difference obviously in the fan clutches, between the 2). On my '03, the clutch was like $600, but for the '04.5, it was only @ $250 (and yes, electronic). I had parts house pull it out for me, and check it out and has same plug for my '04.5 harness. So, yes, I will be purchasing that clutch so we can eliminate that as a variable as well.

So, on Monday, my hopes are:
CTS will be in, so I can plug that sensor in, and one less "unplugged" pigtail.
Gonna unhook TST-R, and go back stock to rule out that variable.
Pick up the '04.5 elec clutch fan, plug that pigtail in.
For time being, that will leave me with 2 unplugged pigtails:
1)electronic wastegate
2)that 4 pin down on drivers side, by head light, fog lights/fuse box area.

APPS...???????/ Not sure what you mean there????


Oh, this '04.5 harness AND ECM, are from same truck. Not sure it matters any...but on ECM, it has a build date of 12/23/03...the truck itself, that the ECM and harness came out of, had manufacturer date of Jan '04. But, ECM has the 12/23/03 date.
My '03 motor, the ECM on it, has a date of 12/02/02. It was reflashed by dealer when original owner had truck. Not that any of that matters, because that ECM is out of the picture right now.

 

The APPS (accelerator pedal position sensor) is the black box mounted in front of air horn on the engine or under the drivers side battery.
The unplugged 4 pin connector that you have may be for it.

Is the APPS mounted on the engine or under the drivers side battery?
Is it plugged in?

The position and style of the APPS is strange since it may be either style and there doesn't seem to be any logic to it. For example my original 2004.5 manual trans truck has it under the drivers battery, but I've seen other 2004.5 manual trans trucks with it mounted on the engine.


I was sure that the 2003-04 engines did not have an electronically controlled fan but I must be mistaken. Either way, installing a 2004.5 fan clutch and harness should correct that issue.


Why is the 2003 ECM "out of the picture"?
Perhaps you just want to use the parts you already have or is there another reason not to use or purchase a 2003 ECM which seems to be the easier way to go?


Interesting and educational thread. While it may get frustrating at times, the positive is that you are learning a ton on 2003-2004.5 Dodge Cummins & that info will help greatly in the future when you get the truck running and on the road.

 

I must have missed this last night, sorry.

The reason I cant install the '03 ECM/Harness, is because it was a stick motor (NV5600), and now has an auto (48RE) behind it.
The '03 set up has TWO computer's (1ECM, 1 PCM) for auto trucks. So, it wasn't like I could just go out and buy the PCM and be done with it. I would have to either reflash (not sure that was even possible) the stick ECM, AND buy the PCM AND wiring harness, OR, but the ECM AND PCM AND WIRING HARNESS.
So, that is BIG money, and no matter how high and low I searched...I couldn't find the '03 stuff...used.
So, we came across a wrecked '04.5 and that is why I am using that stuff.
Hope that answers that. Sorry I missed your post last night.

 

Interesting about this "APPS". The '03 motor doesn't have a "black box" that you are referring to. Or, maybe Im just not quite understanding what you are describing. The '03 motor has a standard throttle cable, and a black ID tag with some motor info on it, and under it, has a smaller 6 pin (think it's 6 pin) that plugs into underside of it. Im ASSUMING that was the TPS (throttle position sensor), but maybe in fact, it's the APPS you are talking about????

The '04.5 wiring (which is all automatic stuff, wasn't a manual trans) has the SAME plug as the '03, and plugs in just fine under the throttle cable.
There is not another "black box" that I am aware of. The only thing by drivers side battery, is the ABS module (to the right) and the fuse box (to the left), just like the '03 set up.
Now, I COULD be wrong, but I THOUGHT the '04.5 truck was a throttle cable truck, and NOT an electronic throttle. I was thinking I remembered removing the pedal assembly, and thinking to myself, OK, good, not the electric throttle cable.
However, that was a couple/few months ago I dismantled that truck, and can't say FOR SURE that was the case.
Is THAT what you are talking about? Electric throttle pedal assembly??? And not an actual throttle cable?

I know I dismantled an '05 2500 (Hemi) 4WD and it has the electric throttle and no cable.

Can someone maybe post a picture of this "black box" you are referring to so I can get a better understanding of what it is?

And yes, it can get frustrating at times...but this is what I do (well, in a nutshell). I build race cars/Hot Rods and every now and then I've done some conversions on a few diesel's.. I've converted a Cummins 1 ton from 2WD to 4WD, and I've done a manual to auto swap.
This is my 1st go round in swapping ECM's/Motors/transmission/trucks using different year model stuff, and has been a little bit of a head scratcher to be sure.

But yes, the '03 ECM/Motor has the Electronic Viscous fan clutch. My truck is an '03, and it has it, and what a PIA it is. Many moons ago, when I first got my truck, I NEVER heard the clutch engage, and everything was just fine. Truck never ran hot (hauled cars grossing 25-30K LBS cross country), and AC worked just fine.
One day, under truck, and I notice wiring harness shredded by fan. They had come loose, got tied up in fan. It is a 6 wire pigtail, color coded....so, spliced them back together, hooked it up and guess what? The CLUTCH stayed locked up! Oh man, drove me NUTS it was so loud. So, I unplugged it, and my AC wouldn't work at idle. Plug it back in, and AC would work at idle, but MAN IT WAS NOISY. I wanted my AC, so I just let it be, loud and all. What was weird was, I drove that truck for 2 or 3 YEARS and I NEVER heard that clutch fan lock up. Now, I wire it BACK up (who knows how long it was been shredded) and the clutch stayed locked up. They were color coded wires, so wasn't like you could mix up the wires.
Anyways...when clutch finally wore out ffrom being locked up 100% of the time, my AC stopped working at idle (unless it was "cool" outside). I priced a fan clutch out...$600+ so I just let it eat.
Why is the '04.5 so different/cheaper? I couldn't tell you that. They sure and heck LOOK the same..only thing I see different is wiring exits on drivers side for '04.5, and wiring exits on passenger side for my '03.
Anyways....another head scratcher for ya. Thanks for all your insight.


EDIT: I KNOW FOR FACT the '04.5 motor/trans setup, had a manual kick down cable for auto transmission. That I KNOW for fact.
Now, what I DONT know is...can truck STILL have electric throttle control AND still have manual kickdown cable? I woudnt think so...but again, Im in unchartered waters here, and maybe you know the answer to that one?

 

I wanted to post a picture of the 4 wire connector/pigtail, in case of someone else seeing it, and chiming in.

Guys, here is the 4 pin connector again, that I need to find a home for! What does it hook up to?
It comes out of harness, that runs behind drivers side battery, fuse box, drops down to horns, washer bottle, head lights/fog lights.
ALL OF THOSE ITEMS are hooked up, but yet, this 4 pin STILL has no home/something to plug into.
As big as it is, it LOOKS important, but everything has been accounted for (well, obviously not everything since it remains unplugged, but you get what I am saying).
Its the last plug that we are still trying to track down. Here are two shots of it:

 

Good info.

As was mentioned, I'm not sure why Dodge/Cummins had 2 versions of APPS for those years.
APPS is the Dodge/Cummins term for TPS. Same thing.

While the 2003-2005 trucks have a cable from the accelerator pedal to the APPS, it's an electronic throttle.
My APPS is mounted under the drivers side battery and there is a cable from the accelerator pedal to the APPS.
It was late 2005 or 2006 where Dodge/Cummins eliminated the accelerator pedal cables and the APPS/TPS was mounted directly on the pedal in the cab.

Here is a picture of an engine mounted APPS:




The under battery APPS looks completely different. It's about an 1" thick by 4 x8, mounts under the drivers side battery above the plastic fender liner.

Do you happen to remember where the APPS was mounted on the truck where you pulled the 2004.5 engine harness?


I will check my truck later today but I'm thinking that the last ECM harness connector that doesn't plug into anything may plug into an under battery APPS.
Hopefully someone else has the answer if I can't find that connector.

 

Ahhhhh, OK, now I see what you guys are saying. Yeah, my '03 motor has the engine mounted APPS (what I have been referring to as "throttle body/cable", even though no air passes through it like traditional throttle body.)
There is a sensor located under that (it's a smaller 6 pin pigtail), and the '04.5 wiring harness had the same connector, so it plugged right in.

HOWEVER, I am not sure if that '04.5 truck/motor had the engine mounted APPS or not. The cylinder head/turbo/intake/intercooler were all MIA when I stripped the ECM/Wiring Harness off of truck. I removed everything else I THOUGHT that the wiring harness plugged into, but again, I can't be certain if the '04.5 motor had the engine mounted APPS or not.

With all of this info you have shed some light on the subject at hand, and it SOUNDS like this is what this pigtail is for: The APPS mounted under fuse box/battery.
I called the guy I got the '04.5 ECM/wiring from to ask if he still had the intake and/or the APPS. I haven't heard back from him yet, so we will see if that is in fact what this 4 wire connector plugs into.
Again, SOUNDS like it.
Thanks for the insight, and will keep you guys updated on my progress!!

 

Cruise control!!!!!! That is what that plug is for! On this '03, it doesn't have an actual cruise control motor for some odd reason...even though the truck has cruise control. The '04.5 truck has a cruise control motor under battery tray on drivers side, and THAT is what that plug is for.
Crazier part? My buddy brought over his '03 model truck, and his truck has the SAME cruise control motor as the '04.5...but yet, this '03 DOESN'T have the cruise control motor. Weird, huh? His truck is an automatic, and this truck was a NV5600.
So, maybe that is why...even though not sure why one would have motor, and one wouldn.t
Also, this '04.5 DOES have a vacuum pump as well. It mounts to passenger side inner fender...but again, the '03 NV5600 truck, does NOT have vacuum pump, but my buddies 48RE '03, DOES have the same vacuum pump as the '04.5.
The more I look at auto Vs. stick, and '03 Vs. '04.5, the crazier differences I am finding.

Wiper motor? Different. CTS? Different Elec Fan Clutch? Different. Crusie control? Different. Vacuum pump? Different

Also...I found out that the '04.5 motor did in fact have a MOTOR mounted APPS...so we are good to go there.

However, lift pump on the '04.5 was mounted in fuel tank...on the '03, lift pump mounted on fuel filter housing. Just one more in a LONG list of differences in trucks.

 

Good deal!
There was a way to convert the pre 04 trucks to a pump in tank. Or you could run a aftermarket type pump.