Valvoline Premium Extreme Blue Oil
12-05-2009, 11:19 AM
#91
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It all comes down to what lets you sleep at night, which filter is working, and what you UOA tells you.
I switched oil and my analysis changed in a way I didn't like. My TBN was down, my detergent was down, my iron was up, so I switched again. Blackstone said the oil was just fine. But I didn't like the numbers so I switched.
Most of these oil experts say you can run **** near anything in your truck if you filter and change properly.
So use what makes you happy, change as often as you need to, but use a really good filter.
As for me, I saw all you guys talking about Valvoline Blue and I'm going to run that a few times. Looks like a great oil, I'll see what Blackstone shows me.
Oh, and Amsoil? I don't use it. It costs a lot, and I get happiness from changing my oil. Love it or hate it, I know companies that have run the same Amsoil in a truck for over 80,000 miles with just filter changes and UOA. If the analysis shows the oil is good, why ever change it?
I switched oil and my analysis changed in a way I didn't like. My TBN was down, my detergent was down, my iron was up, so I switched again. Blackstone said the oil was just fine. But I didn't like the numbers so I switched.
Most of these oil experts say you can run **** near anything in your truck if you filter and change properly.
So use what makes you happy, change as often as you need to, but use a really good filter.
As for me, I saw all you guys talking about Valvoline Blue and I'm going to run that a few times. Looks like a great oil, I'll see what Blackstone shows me.
Oh, and Amsoil? I don't use it. It costs a lot, and I get happiness from changing my oil. Love it or hate it, I know companies that have run the same Amsoil in a truck for over 80,000 miles with just filter changes and UOA. If the analysis shows the oil is good, why ever change it?
12-07-2009, 02:43 PM
#92
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Sorry for the long wait. I was out of town this past weekend. I could only find 3 samples. One is the "money shot" as it were, and the other 2 are "post" Amsoil. I do have before samples somewhere, but since this is esentially just information posted on the internet, you could poke all kinds of holes in this information anyway, so my effort in this respect is officially finished.
These samples were taken from the same vehicle, with the same engine in it, and the engine never had anything more than routine maintenance such as spark plugs, oil changes etc. As I said, I had the truck until it had 220,000 kms on the clock, and it never required any major engine work.
Oh, and a humble appology to all on DTR about my grammar and spelling. How about we keep on subject and talk about oil.
And one last thing, how about posting up some UOA sample of high mileage Amsoil, since I haven't seen any proof of that as of yet.
These samples were taken from the same vehicle, with the same engine in it, and the engine never had anything more than routine maintenance such as spark plugs, oil changes etc. As I said, I had the truck until it had 220,000 kms on the clock, and it never required any major engine work.
Oh, and a humble appology to all on DTR about my grammar and spelling. How about we keep on subject and talk about oil.
And one last thing, how about posting up some UOA sample of high mileage Amsoil, since I haven't seen any proof of that as of yet.
12-07-2009, 06:47 PM
#93
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I work for a transportation company and almost all of the fleet including the new hybrid buses are equipped with cummins m11 (variants of all m11 engines) and isl engines. I have worked in conjunction with cummins field techs and engineers. They all swear by valvoline premium blue 15-40w. Of course they are cummins, why shouldnt they . . . . My point is, we dont see hardly any engine failures at all. All the coaches get a repower package when the current powertrain hits 500k in a cycle. We see more tranny failures than anything else from such top manufactures such as allison and voight. Consequently all I use is valvoline premium blue. If it's good enough for a extremely abused inner city tranist bus, it's good enough for me.
12-07-2009, 07:05 PM
#94
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I work for a transportation company and almost all of the fleet including the new hybrid buses are equipped with cummins m11 (variants of all m11 engines) and isl engines. I have worked in conjunction with cummins field techs and engineers. They all swear by valvoline premium blue 15-40w. Of course they are cummins, why shouldnt they . . . . My point is, we dont see hardly any engine failures at all. All the coaches get a repower package when the current powertrain hits 500k in a cycle. We see more tranny failures than anything else from such top manufactures such as allison and voight. Consequently all I use is valvoline premium blue. If it's good enough for a extremely abused inner city tranist bus, it's good enough for me.
Thanks for the good info.
12-08-2009, 08:24 PM
#97
I have run the PB and send in a sample to black stone and every one was you can put more miles on it before you change it. I am up to 10.000 miles on this oil change when it gets to 10.000 miles I will change it and send a sample to then and see what they have to say.
12-08-2009, 09:28 PM
#98
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Sorry for the long wait. I was out of town this past weekend. I could only find 3 samples. One is the "money shot" as it were, and the other 2 are "post" Amsoil. I do have before samples somewhere, but since this is esentially just information posted on the internet, you could poke all kinds of holes in this information anyway, so my effort in this respect is officially finished.
These samples were taken from the same vehicle, with the same engine in it, and the engine never had anything more than routine maintenance such as spark plugs, oil changes etc. As I said, I had the truck until it had 220,000 kms on the clock, and it never required any major engine work.
Oh, and a humble appology to all on DTR about my grammar and spelling. How about we keep on subject and talk about oil.
And one last thing, how about posting up some UOA sample of high mileage Amsoil, since I haven't seen any proof of that as of yet.
These samples were taken from the same vehicle, with the same engine in it, and the engine never had anything more than routine maintenance such as spark plugs, oil changes etc. As I said, I had the truck until it had 220,000 kms on the clock, and it never required any major engine work.
Oh, and a humble appology to all on DTR about my grammar and spelling. How about we keep on subject and talk about oil.
And one last thing, how about posting up some UOA sample of high mileage Amsoil, since I haven't seen any proof of that as of yet.
For the record, I also use PB 15W-40, but only in the 92'. That truck only sees about 5k miles a year and I can get it for a reasonably cheap price compared to synthetic.
Here's a UOA from my 01' Excursion, which includes samples from the last 2 years, with roughly 12k miles on each run. Only a full flow Amsoil filter was used for filtration, and it wasn't changed until the oil was changed. When I change the oil this summer I plan to add an Amsoil single element bypass filter to it.
12-09-2009, 12:29 AM
#99
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The Amsoil sample was somewhat unique in that it was the only sample ever taken where I didn't change the oil at the time the sample was taken. (although I wish I had. It didn't last long in the engine once I got the sample results back.) It was taken through the drain plug after a few seconds of the oil running. If you move fast you really don't loose much oil. I wipe up the drain plug area before draining to keep things clean.
Although that sample techinique was unique to the 3 posted, I have done it before on a couple different vehicles.
The other 2 samples taken where taken "mid-stream" when the oil was draining.
If you're wondering, I did not just scoop it from the drain pan like I have seen others do. I believe in sample cleanliness.
No matter how it was sampled, I don't see a possible way to get a false high reading of lead and iron. Silicon maybe, but not wear metals.
And did you notice the viscosity also? That stuff was turning into tar, which is typical when the additive package breaks down.
Back then (you'll notice the sample dates to be 2002-2005) I got sucked into Amsoil's sly marketing. Seemed the perfect option to go 25,000 miles between oil changes. I was using the truck for an hour long highway commute, so less oil changes mean less time, and cheaper cost. What could be better?
At least I had a bit of an idea about oil sampling, and knew I shouldn't proceed without checking up from time to time. I certainly caught it in time. I'm honestly surprised that engine didn't end up developing a knock. I was sure when I saw that sample it was inevitable.
Since that time I have grown greatly in knowledge regarding UOA. I run the oil sampling program at work, and look at around 200 samples a year, ranging from industrial pumps to vehicles to turbines. I have also had the opportunity to attend formal training on UOA and lubrication on 3 different occasions. These were all presented by independent companies who had no affiliation to any major oil company. All the presenters were very knowledgable on oil and lubrication, and all pretty much had nothing good to say about Amsoil.
Obviously I have formed my opinion based on personal experience, as well as the benefits of greater knowledge of oil and UOA.
So hopefully you can see a clearer picture of where I'm coming from. I'm not just some troll who has nothing better to do but make this stuff up, and want's to stir things up. I think I have legitimate knowledge to share, although my delivery, and grammar, could probably use some honing.
Although that sample techinique was unique to the 3 posted, I have done it before on a couple different vehicles.
The other 2 samples taken where taken "mid-stream" when the oil was draining.
If you're wondering, I did not just scoop it from the drain pan like I have seen others do. I believe in sample cleanliness.
No matter how it was sampled, I don't see a possible way to get a false high reading of lead and iron. Silicon maybe, but not wear metals.
And did you notice the viscosity also? That stuff was turning into tar, which is typical when the additive package breaks down.
Back then (you'll notice the sample dates to be 2002-2005) I got sucked into Amsoil's sly marketing. Seemed the perfect option to go 25,000 miles between oil changes. I was using the truck for an hour long highway commute, so less oil changes mean less time, and cheaper cost. What could be better?
At least I had a bit of an idea about oil sampling, and knew I shouldn't proceed without checking up from time to time. I certainly caught it in time. I'm honestly surprised that engine didn't end up developing a knock. I was sure when I saw that sample it was inevitable.
Since that time I have grown greatly in knowledge regarding UOA. I run the oil sampling program at work, and look at around 200 samples a year, ranging from industrial pumps to vehicles to turbines. I have also had the opportunity to attend formal training on UOA and lubrication on 3 different occasions. These were all presented by independent companies who had no affiliation to any major oil company. All the presenters were very knowledgable on oil and lubrication, and all pretty much had nothing good to say about Amsoil.
Obviously I have formed my opinion based on personal experience, as well as the benefits of greater knowledge of oil and UOA.
So hopefully you can see a clearer picture of where I'm coming from. I'm not just some troll who has nothing better to do but make this stuff up, and want's to stir things up. I think I have legitimate knowledge to share, although my delivery, and grammar, could probably use some honing.
12-09-2009, 07:52 AM
#100
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The Amsoil sample was somewhat unique in that it was the only sample ever taken where I didn't change the oil at the time the sample was taken. (although I wish I had. It didn't last long in the engine once I got the sample results back.) It was taken through the drain plug after a few seconds of the oil running. If you move fast you really don't loose much oil. I wipe up the drain plug area before draining to keep things clean.
Although that sample techinique was unique to the 3 posted, I have done it before on a couple different vehicles.
The other 2 samples taken where taken "mid-stream" when the oil was draining.
If you're wondering, I did not just scoop it from the drain pan like I have seen others do. I believe in sample cleanliness.
No matter how it was sampled, I don't see a possible way to get a false high reading of lead and iron. Silicon maybe, but not wear metals.
And did you notice the viscosity also? That stuff was turning into tar, which is typical when the additive package breaks down.
Back then (you'll notice the sample dates to be 2002-2005) I got sucked into Amsoil's sly marketing. Seemed the perfect option to go 25,000 miles between oil changes. I was using the truck for an hour long highway commute, so less oil changes mean less time, and cheaper cost. What could be better?
At least I had a bit of an idea about oil sampling, and knew I shouldn't proceed without checking up from time to time. I certainly caught it in time. I'm honestly surprised that engine didn't end up developing a knock. I was sure when I saw that sample it was inevitable.
Since that time I have grown greatly in knowledge regarding UOA. I run the oil sampling program at work, and look at around 200 samples a year, ranging from industrial pumps to vehicles to turbines. I have also had the opportunity to attend formal training on UOA and lubrication on 3 different occasions. These were all presented by independent companies who had no affiliation to any major oil company. All the presenters were very knowledgable on oil and lubrication, and all pretty much had nothing good to say about Amsoil.
Obviously I have formed my opinion based on personal experience, as well as the benefits of greater knowledge of oil and UOA.
So hopefully you can see a clearer picture of where I'm coming from. I'm not just some troll who has nothing better to do but make this stuff up, and want's to stir things up. I think I have legitimate knowledge to share, although my delivery, and grammar, could probably use some honing.
Although that sample techinique was unique to the 3 posted, I have done it before on a couple different vehicles.
The other 2 samples taken where taken "mid-stream" when the oil was draining.
If you're wondering, I did not just scoop it from the drain pan like I have seen others do. I believe in sample cleanliness.
No matter how it was sampled, I don't see a possible way to get a false high reading of lead and iron. Silicon maybe, but not wear metals.
And did you notice the viscosity also? That stuff was turning into tar, which is typical when the additive package breaks down.
Back then (you'll notice the sample dates to be 2002-2005) I got sucked into Amsoil's sly marketing. Seemed the perfect option to go 25,000 miles between oil changes. I was using the truck for an hour long highway commute, so less oil changes mean less time, and cheaper cost. What could be better?
At least I had a bit of an idea about oil sampling, and knew I shouldn't proceed without checking up from time to time. I certainly caught it in time. I'm honestly surprised that engine didn't end up developing a knock. I was sure when I saw that sample it was inevitable.
Since that time I have grown greatly in knowledge regarding UOA. I run the oil sampling program at work, and look at around 200 samples a year, ranging from industrial pumps to vehicles to turbines. I have also had the opportunity to attend formal training on UOA and lubrication on 3 different occasions. These were all presented by independent companies who had no affiliation to any major oil company. All the presenters were very knowledgable on oil and lubrication, and all pretty much had nothing good to say about Amsoil.
Obviously I have formed my opinion based on personal experience, as well as the benefits of greater knowledge of oil and UOA.
So hopefully you can see a clearer picture of where I'm coming from. I'm not just some troll who has nothing better to do but make this stuff up, and want's to stir things up. I think I have legitimate knowledge to share, although my delivery, and grammar, could probably use some honing.
Alright then, thanks for the good conversation.
12-09-2009, 11:58 PM
#101
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You probably also noticed the note I put in sample #3 about the infamous K&N air filter? Didn't need anymore proof than that to pitch it in the garbage.
Life is always a lesson. Sometimes it just costs you more.
Life is always a lesson. Sometimes it just costs you more.
12-10-2009, 06:37 AM
#102
Administrator ........ DTR's puttin fires out and workin on big trucks admin
Interesting, the abnormal lead post is definitely what drew my attention first. How do you take the samples?
For the record, I also use PB 15W-40, but only in the 92'. That truck only sees about 5k miles a year and I can get it for a reasonably cheap price compared to synthetic.
Here's a UOA from my 01' Excursion, which includes samples from the last 2 years, with roughly 12k miles on each run. Only a full flow Amsoil filter was used for filtration, and it wasn't changed until the oil was changed. When I change the oil this summer I plan to add an Amsoil single element bypass filter to it.
For the record, I also use PB 15W-40, but only in the 92'. That truck only sees about 5k miles a year and I can get it for a reasonably cheap price compared to synthetic.
Here's a UOA from my 01' Excursion, which includes samples from the last 2 years, with roughly 12k miles on each run. Only a full flow Amsoil filter was used for filtration, and it wasn't changed until the oil was changed. When I change the oil this summer I plan to add an Amsoil single element bypass filter to it.
Great looking oil sample. The hpop on the powerstroke loves to shear oil so your visc is a little low but higher than normal for a powerstroke. You will be able to double and triple you service interval easy with a bypass system installed. Your slightly elevated copper level is most likely from the oil cooler.
You guy's sampling your oil should do so with the engine at full operating temp. This is the only way to gather a real world sample.
12-10-2009, 08:01 AM
#103
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Great looking oil sample. The hpop on the powerstroke loves to shear oil so your visc is a little low but higher than normal for a powerstroke. You will be able to double and triple you service interval easy with a bypass system installed. Your slightly elevated copper level is most likely from the oil cooler.
You guy's sampling your oil should do so with the engine at full operating temp. This is the only way to gather a real world sample.
You guy's sampling your oil should do so with the engine at full operating temp. This is the only way to gather a real world sample.
01-15-2010, 07:19 AM
#105
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This whole tread was very interesting. The question I have is where can you buy dino oil which is CI4. All the parts stores only carry the CJ4 in shell,delo,valvoline premium blue,castrol ect. Seems like the only CI4 available is amsoil 15/40 diesel marine and thats syn and expensive. I would like to continue to use the delo 400 CI4 where do you get it?