Valvoline Premium Extreme Blue Oil
12-03-2009, 09:10 PM
#61
Are you caliming you have had cams wiped out in a Cummins ISB in a few hundred miles?
12-03-2009, 10:52 PM
#62
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Come on Guy, quit attacking everyone who dosen't agree with you. Yes, people have had cam lobes wiped with the new oil. We now have the same crappy low ZDDP additive pack as the gassers. My opinion is a stock motor with stock valve springs probably will not have this problem. If you use aftermarket performance springs with a stock cam or an aftermarket cam you will need the higher ZDDP additive pack if you run the newer oil. I am one of the folks who would use Rotella T in my gasser due to the additive pack until I had enough miles on the engine to run synthetic. I called all the other oil "Grocery store oil". That would be penzoil, valveline, castrol, quaker state, etc. Delo 400 and Rotella T were good choices back then. Not anymore with this new formula.
12-04-2009, 08:40 AM
#63
I am asking 2 things; don't post invalid data comaprisons, and CONVINCE me with hard proof there is an issue! Really, if thats too much to ask then this thread is totally meaningless.
The whole thing reads like the new oils are going to immedately destroy the engine if one does not run right out and put the additives in. Prove it, don't postulate. Where are the wear tests to prove that there is an issue? Where is the documented testing procedures that rule out the myriad of other factors that contribute?
Even better, where are the class action lawsuits because Cummins recommends and oil that will destroy their engine?
Who is atacking who here?
12-04-2009, 08:48 AM
#64
Registered User
Arguing on the internet is like winning the Special Olympics... oh never mind..
the basic rule is you're never as smart as they are, they know all... your truck is inferior to theirs, just because.. etc etc...
I always laugh at those who read charts to gauge how an oil will perform... UOA's always tell the truth..
and folks, do some research.. CJ oils are not causing massive industry wide engine wear... Diesel fleets across the country have switched to it... We would have heard about it...
nothing to fear...
but I'm wrong, and I accept it.. since this is the internets.
the basic rule is you're never as smart as they are, they know all... your truck is inferior to theirs, just because.. etc etc...
I always laugh at those who read charts to gauge how an oil will perform... UOA's always tell the truth..
and folks, do some research.. CJ oils are not causing massive industry wide engine wear... Diesel fleets across the country have switched to it... We would have heard about it...
nothing to fear...
but I'm wrong, and I accept it.. since this is the internets.
12-04-2009, 12:38 PM
#66
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So you trust Cummins to build your engine, but not formulate the oil that goes into it? To me that is a strong arguement to use PBE.
As far as UOA goes, I also do them and found PBE stands up fine.
Although this is a somewhat apples to oranges comparison, I have seen UOA on a gasser (my own) that showed Amsoil not to be the oil they claimed. If it won't work in a gasser it will NEVER find it's way into my diesel.
As far as UOA goes, I also do them and found PBE stands up fine.
Although this is a somewhat apples to oranges comparison, I have seen UOA on a gasser (my own) that showed Amsoil not to be the oil they claimed. If it won't work in a gasser it will NEVER find it's way into my diesel.
12-04-2009, 01:00 PM
#67
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So you trust Cummins to build your engine, but not formulate the oil that goes into it? To me that is a strong arguement to use PBE.
As far as UOA goes, I also do them and found PBE stands up fine.
Although this is a somewhat apples to oranges comparison, I have seen UOA on a gasser (my own) that showed Amsoil not to be the oil they claimed. If it won't work in a gasser it will NEVER find it's way into my diesel.
As far as UOA goes, I also do them and found PBE stands up fine.
Although this is a somewhat apples to oranges comparison, I have seen UOA on a gasser (my own) that showed Amsoil not to be the oil they claimed. If it won't work in a gasser it will NEVER find it's way into my diesel.
Does that mean you use all cummins filters for your engine / trans ? Do you also use cummins trans fluid ?? I also own chevy's. I don't use GM oil in them.. Amsoil has performed very well in all my gas engines..( per UOA) I don't expect anything less from them for my diesel. Amsoil is also a group 4 PAO base stock..I may be wrong. But, what I can find on PBE, it's a group 3 hydrocracked mineral oil
Just like apples & oranges
some like apples,,, some like oranges
12-04-2009, 02:41 PM
#71
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Does that mean you use all cummins filters for your engine / trans ? Do you also use cummins trans fluid ?? I also own chevy's. I don't use GM oil in them.. Amsoil has performed very well in all my gas engines..( per UOA) I don't expect anything less from them for my diesel. Amsoil is also a group 4 PAO base stock..I may be wrong. But, what I can find on PBE, it's a group 3 hydrocracked mineral oil
Just like apples & oranges
some like apples,,, some like oranges
Just like apples & oranges
some like apples,,, some like oranges
(just messin with ya!)Since Cummins doesn't make transmissions, I use OEM fluid (but up til recently you had no choice there). And yes I actully use Delco filters in my ex-GM.
Don't get me wrong, I see your point, but since Cummins only business is engine manufacture, and they have to care about thier reputation, I do believe if they put thier name on it, it is top quality.
I will pose this question to you. Given identical circumstances, if you had any name brand synthetic oil in your truck instead of Amsoil, would it perform similarly?
We run a fleet of vehicles at work, and decided to push the envelope on oil changes, so we did extensive testing on a Chevy gasser 5.3l. We found we could get nearly 15,000 kms out of what I would consider a lower quality line of a name brand oil (5/30 dino oil).
I ran Amsoil to 20,000 kms in a 5.7l GM truck under similar circumstances (mostly highway miles), and the oil was in such poor shape, it nearly cost me the engine (lead 72, iron 34, viscosity equivalent to a 15/40). This was with filter changes at 5,000 kms and a 1 liter top up at that time. Was it my mistake to leave it that long before I did UOA, absolutely. But since Amsoil claims thier oil is good for 25,000 miles, I thought it would easily make less than 1/2 that distance.
The vehicle at work never got a filter change or a top up once in that time. Did Amsoil perform better, not in my mind.
And for your last comment about group 3 vs. 4, that is like saying fake bacon is better than real bacon. Group 3 lubricants are now comparable to group 4.
Add my personal experience on to a complete unintelligent conversation with Amsoil themselves, and you may begin to see why I bash Amsoil.
There marketing is misleading. They reference API standards on thier bottle, even though they ARE NOT API certified (and can't be because it would not pass). They show irrelavent tests like the the four ball wear test, comparing themselves to other oils. etc etc.
To me that makes it snake oil. A Good quality company doesn't need a bunch of BS to sell thier product.
Ultimately if you happy with Amsoil, go hard. All I'm trying to say it isn't head and shoulders above all others as some have come to believe.
Would I run Chevron, or Mobil1 (or any other name brand oil)? Absolutely. Given the way I run my engine and given the modest extended drain intervals, it will outlive me in all likelyhood.
.
12-04-2009, 06:31 PM
#73
Registered User
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...highlight=ZDDP
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...highlight=ZDDP
Why don't you read for yourself. I am sure I can find more in other forums but what is the point, you won't believe me. I am done posting on the thread.
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...highlight=ZDDP
Why don't you read for yourself. I am sure I can find more in other forums but what is the point, you won't believe me. I am done posting on the thread.
12-04-2009, 09:22 PM
#74
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As a matterof fact I do use Fleetgard filiters. Don't you? What do you use FRAM? (just messin with ya!)
Since Cummins doesn't make transmissions, I use OEM fluid (but up til recently you had no choice there). And yes I actully use Delco filters in my ex-GM.
Don't get me wrong, I see your point, but since Cummins only business is engine manufacture, and they have to care about thier reputation, I do believe if they put thier name on it, it is top quality.
I will pose this question to you. Given identical circumstances, if you had any name brand synthetic oil in your truck instead of Amsoil, would it perform similarly?
We run a fleet of vehicles at work, and decided to push the envelope on oil changes, so we did extensive testing on a Chevy gasser 5.3l. We found we could get nearly 15,000 kms out of what I would consider a lower quality line of a name brand oil (5/30 dino oil).
I ran Amsoil to 20,000 kms in a 5.7l GM truck under similar circumstances (mostly highway miles), and the oil was in such poor shape, it nearly cost me the engine (lead 72, iron 34, viscosity equivalent to a 15/40). This was with filter changes at 5,000 kms and a 1 liter top up at that time. Was it my mistake to leave it that long before I did UOA, absolutely. But since Amsoil claims thier oil is good for 25,000 miles, I thought it would easily make less than 1/2 that distance.
The vehicle at work never got a filter change or a top up once in that time. Did Amsoil perform better, not in my mind.
And for your last comment about group 3 vs. 4, that is like saying fake bacon is better than real bacon. Group 3 lubricants are now comparable to group 4.
Add my personal experience on to a complete unintelligent conversation with Amsoil themselves, and you may begin to see why I bash Amsoil.
There marketing is misleading. They reference API standards on thier bottle, even though they ARE NOT API certified (and can't be because it would not pass). They show irrelavent tests like the the four ball wear test, comparing themselves to other oils. etc etc.
To me that makes it snake oil. A Good quality company doesn't need a bunch of BS to sell thier product.
Ultimately if you happy with Amsoil, go hard. All I'm trying to say it isn't head and shoulders above all others as some have come to believe.
Would I run Chevron, or Mobil1 (or any other name brand oil)? Absolutely. Given the way I run my engine and given the modest extended drain intervals, it will outlive me in all likelyhood.
(just messin with ya!)Since Cummins doesn't make transmissions, I use OEM fluid (but up til recently you had no choice there). And yes I actully use Delco filters in my ex-GM.
Don't get me wrong, I see your point, but since Cummins only business is engine manufacture, and they have to care about thier reputation, I do believe if they put thier name on it, it is top quality.
I will pose this question to you. Given identical circumstances, if you had any name brand synthetic oil in your truck instead of Amsoil, would it perform similarly?
We run a fleet of vehicles at work, and decided to push the envelope on oil changes, so we did extensive testing on a Chevy gasser 5.3l. We found we could get nearly 15,000 kms out of what I would consider a lower quality line of a name brand oil (5/30 dino oil).
I ran Amsoil to 20,000 kms in a 5.7l GM truck under similar circumstances (mostly highway miles), and the oil was in such poor shape, it nearly cost me the engine (lead 72, iron 34, viscosity equivalent to a 15/40). This was with filter changes at 5,000 kms and a 1 liter top up at that time. Was it my mistake to leave it that long before I did UOA, absolutely. But since Amsoil claims thier oil is good for 25,000 miles, I thought it would easily make less than 1/2 that distance.
The vehicle at work never got a filter change or a top up once in that time. Did Amsoil perform better, not in my mind.
And for your last comment about group 3 vs. 4, that is like saying fake bacon is better than real bacon. Group 3 lubricants are now comparable to group 4.
Add my personal experience on to a complete unintelligent conversation with Amsoil themselves, and you may begin to see why I bash Amsoil.
There marketing is misleading. They reference API standards on thier bottle, even though they ARE NOT API certified (and can't be because it would not pass). They show irrelavent tests like the the four ball wear test, comparing themselves to other oils. etc etc.
To me that makes it snake oil. A Good quality company doesn't need a bunch of BS to sell thier product.
Ultimately if you happy with Amsoil, go hard. All I'm trying to say it isn't head and shoulders above all others as some have come to believe.
Would I run Chevron, or Mobil1 (or any other name brand oil)? Absolutely. Given the way I run my engine and given the modest extended drain intervals, it will outlive me in all likelyhood.
12-04-2009, 09:34 PM
#75
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FWIW: I have been running VPEB for a couple of years - since ULSD. Lot's of heavy loads and long(1000+ mile) trips and no problems. Priced right and recommended by many, so that's what I know.