Dr. Evil

I think its a mixture of both but the formula is likely considered propritary information.....shouldnt matter....both are 100% synthetic

brillmtb

I am no expert but the full ester is superior and what I run in my KTM. I think the PAO is petrolleum based, cheaper and mixed sometimes 50/50 with the ester as I recall. Now that I know what they are I will revisit this.

Full ester based oil is usually around $10/quart and PAO mix less as I recall.

brillmtb

OK, I think the ester is mineral oil while PAO is petrolleum based?

Here is an interesting link to approved oils for MB. I suspect that DC will eventually go to the MD diesel and 6 speed tranny. I have heard from my brother in law that if you think the cummins is a good engine wait until they start putting the MD diesel in and people in the US get some experience with these motors. they may be the best diesels made.

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html

brillmtb

Another oil site with all kinds of info

http://eolcs.api.org/

Interesting but no delvac 1 only MX listed

Dr. Evil

I believe both the Polyalphaolefin and ester are both 100%synthetic.

Hairy1

I guess I better enroll in chemistry school

brillmtb

OK, I think I am getting way out of my area of expertise. My brother in law said PAO and ester are the same thing. I didnt think so....and....that mineral and ester are different.

All I know now is that I will die eventually and that I run full 100% ester based oil in my KTM by motorex. They make diesel oil too and that led me to thinking about a quality ester based oil for my truck.

JyRO

I'd have to say I agree mostly with Hairy1. I change my oil every 5k. Its easy to remember, but so is every 10k for that matter. I run premium blue just like the owner's manual recommends. I pay $9something per gallon plus a fleetgaurd filter (anyone know where I can get it cheaper?). And I also believe I'll never have any oil related problems running this dino oil as long as I own this truck. So ... what advantage would D 1 or any synthetic oil provide to me? My opinion: Only extended drain intervals ... big deal. It doesn't bother me the least to change every 5k. Heck I could go to 7,500 miles if I go by the book.

Lightman, I agree with you 98%. Would I foresee any oil related problems using your Delvac 1? No. But lets say I had some problem like a spun bearing. If DC wanted to make a beef that it was because I wasn't running an approved oil (and were trying to deny warranty based solely on that with no tear-down investigation) well they'll have some grounds. Does their basis have any logical merit? I think not. Stanger things have happened.

All I know is I'd wind up going round and round on this issue with DC/dealer and may wind up getting the stinky side of the stick. If I spin a bearing or some other similar problem from now, I can easily provide receipt copies proving I've been running the V.P.B. since day 1. Now, after warranty is over (I've got 43,000 miles left), I'll run any oil I choose. And D 1 is right there. But likely with stick with the V.P.B. and keep a few more greenbacks in my pocket.

Lastly, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that the sythetics don't deliver superior protection. I'm only saying that I'll never see the benefit of that. Only the extended drain intervals would be the only benefit TO ME.

- JyRO

Dr. Evil

[quote author=JyRO link=board=20;threadid=23603;start=60#msg225995 date=1071782177]
So ... what advantage would D 1 or any synthetic oil provide to me? My opinion: Only extended drain intervals ... big deal.

I'm not saying that the sythetics don't deliver superior protection. I'm only saying that I'll never see the benefit of that. Only the extended drain intervals would be the only benefit TO ME.

- JyRO
[/quote]

Being from Michigan...I would have thought youd be somewhat interested in pour point and cold weather performance/pumpability. The synthetics are so much better in the lower temperatures. I think thats an important feature that you would like to take advantage of...

JyRO

What is the pour point for the V.P.B.? 2 points here. I've never been in weather below -5°F, in Michigan. I've been here 4 years. I park my truck in the garage, every night. The coldest start my truck sees in the garage is ~freezing.

So, I'll start it in -5°F weather a few times and live with it.

- JyRO

Dr. Evil

I see....for some reason I thought Michigan got a little colder than that....

Lightman

Synthetics offer far superior cleanliness, extended drain intervals (15-20k on D1 is easily doable), and less wear. Whether or not the wear makes any difference is definitely debateable, since the cummins is so robust. However, look at it this way...you could eat mcdonalds every day of your life and live to be 70, or eat healthy and live to be 80....or you could live to be 80 on mcdonalds, but if you eat healthy you're probably have the best odds of longest life.....I prefer to dump the good stuff in my crankcase..most of us understand its overkill but we likes it

Jyro - as far as the dealer is concerned, or whatever list people were reading - Delvac 1 meets the cummins oil requirements. It's CI-4 certified and meets their other specs. If it's not listed its just not listed. For the record my dealer offers Amsoil diesel oil changes for cummins so go explain that one.. ;D

JyRO

Lightman - I'm with ya. But I *may* have heard of *a dealer or two* doing things that *may* be considered unethical. I'm just limiting my risk when it comes to potential warranty denial. I agree the D1 is great stuff and meets the Cummins requirements as you say. Still, I'm so tight my butt-cheeks squeak together when I walk.

- JyRO

WestGuy

Im sorry, but Lightman, there is absolutley no support for your claim that synthetics provide better protection for those of us that are willing to maintain 5k (or for that matter 7.5k) oil changes. I don't want to start a war here and I have nothing at all against synthetics (at least group 4 synthetics). I admit they are a great product. I researched this heavily a little while back when I though about using synthetics. THe technical lab tests show synthetics to have better properties overall. However, I read a bunch of real life tests. They were all similar to one that stood out to me. They divided a taxi fleet in half. Half used dino oil with regular oil/filter changes, following the 3k schedule. The second used synthetic oil, changing only the filter and the oil after oil analysis. The outcome: after tearing down the engines there was no difference in wear between the two groups. there was no difference in engine maintenance required between the two groups. the bottom line: the oil/filter costs were slightly higher for the synthetic group. The message: synthetic oil is a marketing hype. Dino oil does every bit as good a job. The only advantage I can see for synthetics in the real world is that you can avoid some oil changes and save yourself a little time. This comes at a cost however. For those of us that have no problem with a 5k oil change schedule, there is simply no advantage. I could not find one (nada, zero) real life test that showed any other outcome than this. Synthetics are great oils, but modern engines, follwing the manufacturers schedule, do not need it. It exceeds the need. It is that simple.

Dr. Evil

Why does everyone feel that they always need to start a post with the phrase???:

"I don't want to start a war here"

This is just a discussion or am I missing something??? Just wondering....