truck died on highway, codes p0581, p2509, p0517
12-22-2011, 01:38 PM
#16
Registered User
Thread Starter
The airdog is not cylcinglike it should. with key on i normally see 15psi, today it would go to 5psi then the pump would cut off like the rest of the gauges. The fuse link is good. My only concern is the pumps 12v is coming from the alternator, not the batteries
12-22-2011, 02:18 PM
#17
Registered User
Somewhere in the forums here, there was a discussion about a wire located just behind the alternator that wasn't quite protected enough from the factory. Vibration against a metal bracket or something, over time, wore through the wire's insulation and occasionally shorted to ground. The wire had something to do with sensor voltage or something, but did strange things. Search function wasn't lucky for me today, but it would only take you a min to check for it.
12-22-2011, 03:45 PM
#20
Registered User
Thread Starter
correct the engine will crank over, but will not fire. The pump will only run for a few seconds then drops to 0. voltage gauge will read momentarily then drops to 0, fuel gauge will read then drop to empty as well. Like it just loses communication. Ive checked the wires now behind the alternator and they look fine.
12-26-2011, 03:33 PM
#22
Registered User
Thread Starter
not really we have been checking the power, the pump is not staying on unless we bypass the power to a jump box. Good voltage at batteries and alternator. Instrument cluster is not acting accurate, and over head has a dash in the dte slot. But we have been steady lookin through the wiring.
12-26-2011, 09:23 PM
#23
Administrator
not really we have been checking the power, the pump is not staying on unless we bypass the power to a jump box. Good voltage at batteries and alternator. Instrument cluster is not acting accurate, and over head has a dash in the dte slot. But we have been steady lookin through the wiring.
Keep us updated as to your progress please.
12-26-2011, 10:52 PM
#24
Registered User
check behind the fuse panel a wire could be burned out that is behind the panel and feeds the gauges and the the fuel solenoid
it could be one that feeds to the key switch and is shorting out
things???this might
explain the strange gauges
it could be one that feeds to the key switch and is shorting out
things???this might
explain the strange gauges
12-27-2011, 12:13 AM
#25
Registered User
rip
Check ALL of your body ground cables. it really is starting to sound like one or more are bad, and causing strange things to happen.
IF I recall correctly, there are grounds from the batteries to the engine on both batteries, then engine to firewall, cab to frame, box to frame, cab to box, engine to frame, and a couple others I cannot recall. I think there were 9 total.
The battery temp sensor will cause your battery on the right side to be overcharged if not reading properly. It uses the left side battery temp to judge the required charging rate. If the temp is low, the alternator ramps up, and because the right side battery is first in line, it gets boiled. Another good reason to make sure that ALL your grounds are in good shape.
Another thing to think about, the LP cycle time is determined by the ECM. when you bump the key, the ECM tells the pump to come on for 30 seconds or so, to purge the system, through the stock LP wiring. Second, you say you are pulling the hot wire for your new LP from the alternator. Any particular reason for that? I normally run from the left side battery positive, through a fuse, to pin 30 on a relay, and use the stock LP wiring to trigger the relay, with the pump hooked to 87. This provides the most direct route for the cable to follow, allowing for less chances of kinking, bending, shorting etc.
Now, if you have a goofy positive wire, shorting to ground somewhere, it can cause the same issues as a bad ground, as it essentially removes the ground plane when it grounds out. Basically making the ground side hot. That one can be a real widow maker, and I have found many cases like that, in trucks that owners have wired all manner of coolness into. Trouble being, unless you have a bunch of patience, you're fighting an uphill battle.
Good luck with this thing, and keep us posted
Check ALL of your body ground cables. it really is starting to sound like one or more are bad, and causing strange things to happen.
IF I recall correctly, there are grounds from the batteries to the engine on both batteries, then engine to firewall, cab to frame, box to frame, cab to box, engine to frame, and a couple others I cannot recall. I think there were 9 total.
The battery temp sensor will cause your battery on the right side to be overcharged if not reading properly. It uses the left side battery temp to judge the required charging rate. If the temp is low, the alternator ramps up, and because the right side battery is first in line, it gets boiled. Another good reason to make sure that ALL your grounds are in good shape.
Another thing to think about, the LP cycle time is determined by the ECM. when you bump the key, the ECM tells the pump to come on for 30 seconds or so, to purge the system, through the stock LP wiring. Second, you say you are pulling the hot wire for your new LP from the alternator. Any particular reason for that? I normally run from the left side battery positive, through a fuse, to pin 30 on a relay, and use the stock LP wiring to trigger the relay, with the pump hooked to 87. This provides the most direct route for the cable to follow, allowing for less chances of kinking, bending, shorting etc.
Now, if you have a goofy positive wire, shorting to ground somewhere, it can cause the same issues as a bad ground, as it essentially removes the ground plane when it grounds out. Basically making the ground side hot. That one can be a real widow maker, and I have found many cases like that, in trucks that owners have wired all manner of coolness into. Trouble being, unless you have a bunch of patience, you're fighting an uphill battle.
Good luck with this thing, and keep us posted
12-27-2011, 05:21 PM
#26
Registered User
Thread Starter
rip
Check ALL of your body ground cables. it really is starting to sound like one or more are bad, and causing strange things to happen.
IF I recall correctly, there are grounds from the batteries to the engine on both batteries, then engine to firewall, cab to frame, box to frame, cab to box, engine to frame, and a couple others I cannot recall. I think there were 9 total.
The battery temp sensor will cause your battery on the right side to be overcharged if not reading properly. It uses the left side battery temp to judge the required charging rate. If the temp is low, the alternator ramps up, and because the right side battery is first in line, it gets boiled. Another good reason to make sure that ALL your grounds are in good shape.
Another thing to think about, the LP cycle time is determined by the ECM. when you bump the key, the ECM tells the pump to come on for 30 seconds or so, to purge the system, through the stock LP wiring. Second, you say you are pulling the hot wire for your new LP from the alternator. Any particular reason for that? I normally run from the left side battery positive, through a fuse, to pin 30 on a relay, and use the stock LP wiring to trigger the relay, with the pump hooked to 87. This provides the most direct route for the cable to follow, allowing for less chances of kinking, bending, shorting etc.
Now, if you have a goofy positive wire, shorting to ground somewhere, it can cause the same issues as a bad ground, as it essentially removes the ground plane when it grounds out. Basically making the ground side hot. That one can be a real widow maker, and I have found many cases like that, in trucks that owners have wired all manner of coolness into. Trouble being, unless you have a bunch of patience, you're fighting an uphill battle.
Good luck with this thing, and keep us posted
Check ALL of your body ground cables. it really is starting to sound like one or more are bad, and causing strange things to happen.
IF I recall correctly, there are grounds from the batteries to the engine on both batteries, then engine to firewall, cab to frame, box to frame, cab to box, engine to frame, and a couple others I cannot recall. I think there were 9 total.
The battery temp sensor will cause your battery on the right side to be overcharged if not reading properly. It uses the left side battery temp to judge the required charging rate. If the temp is low, the alternator ramps up, and because the right side battery is first in line, it gets boiled. Another good reason to make sure that ALL your grounds are in good shape.
Another thing to think about, the LP cycle time is determined by the ECM. when you bump the key, the ECM tells the pump to come on for 30 seconds or so, to purge the system, through the stock LP wiring. Second, you say you are pulling the hot wire for your new LP from the alternator. Any particular reason for that? I normally run from the left side battery positive, through a fuse, to pin 30 on a relay, and use the stock LP wiring to trigger the relay, with the pump hooked to 87. This provides the most direct route for the cable to follow, allowing for less chances of kinking, bending, shorting etc.
Now, if you have a goofy positive wire, shorting to ground somewhere, it can cause the same issues as a bad ground, as it essentially removes the ground plane when it grounds out. Basically making the ground side hot. That one can be a real widow maker, and I have found many cases like that, in trucks that owners have wired all manner of coolness into. Trouble being, unless you have a bunch of patience, you're fighting an uphill battle.
Good luck with this thing, and keep us posted
Dealership is saying its a bad tipm, or fcm, which after some research controls the whole electrical system. Quoted me $706 to fix it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt the fcm or tipm the whole fusebox?
Has anyone had theirs replaced?
Thanks guys for all your support, still to this day refreshing!!!
12-28-2011, 12:14 AM
#27
Registered User
if this is an 04, you have the fcm as part of the underhood power distribution center.
The 06 and later had the TIPM, which is a giant leap backward in vehicular power control engineering. Daimler's way of bringing us to the dark ages. They finally out-engineered Lucas wiring.
I would suggest ( loosely of course ) that you find a wrecked truck with the same basic options as yours, and pick up the FCM from it. slam it in there and see if it helps any. I'm not 100% sure that they do, or do not need to be programmed to the specific vehicle. I know 06 and later, if you replace the TIPM, you HAVE to have the computer and TIPM flashed to work together.
once again, keep us updated.
The 06 and later had the TIPM, which is a giant leap backward in vehicular power control engineering. Daimler's way of bringing us to the dark ages. They finally out-engineered Lucas wiring.
I would suggest ( loosely of course ) that you find a wrecked truck with the same basic options as yours, and pick up the FCM from it. slam it in there and see if it helps any. I'm not 100% sure that they do, or do not need to be programmed to the specific vehicle. I know 06 and later, if you replace the TIPM, you HAVE to have the computer and TIPM flashed to work together.
once again, keep us updated.
12-28-2011, 12:16 AM
#28
Registered User
And just for fun, that P2509 code, pcm/ecm power signal intermittent, can be caused by switching the key off, then back on while the engine is running.
Perhaps have a look at the main power wire to the "run" terminal of the ignition switch, then check it at the PDC/FCM. could be something goofy there
Perhaps have a look at the main power wire to the "run" terminal of the ignition switch, then check it at the PDC/FCM. could be something goofy there
12-28-2011, 08:49 AM
#29
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The engine ECM will have both constant power and switched ignition voltage at the connector. See if you have those first, but you cannot just check them with a volt meter, you need to check them with a test light to draw some amperage on the whole circuit. Do the same with the grounds at the ECM. If you are having problems getting diagnostics that is very possibly your problem. The ******* may be right with the fuse box being the problem, but you can bypass the fuse box for the moment to test it by running fused ignition voltage and fused constant voltage to the ECM. The way they check these things on a big truck is by using a jumper harness that takes the place of the truck and just supplies the ECM with the things it needs to start the engine.
12-28-2011, 11:49 AM
#30
Registered User
Thread Starter
Cool deal thanks.
pind, from what I gathered there is a tipm, but its named different, and the fcm is bolted on the outside of it. The 06 and newer has it all integrated to the tipm.
pind, from what I gathered there is a tipm, but its named different, and the fcm is bolted on the outside of it. The 06 and newer has it all integrated to the tipm.