2004.5 doesn't have egr.... I'm not even sure the 6.7 has it. EGR stands for exhaust gas recirculation. This has nothing to do with the third injection event. Do some searching on injection events as there is not enough room to type about the three events. I believe the newer Cummins are up to 5 injections now.... amazing really.

 

The 6.7L are EGR equipped.

 

I stand corrected... and I'm glad I own a 5.9

 

The cam profile in the 04.5-07's acts as an egr.I don't know all the technical info on this but it has been mentioned numerous times on all the forums.

 

I just saw Trik396's hometown.

"Communist Republic of Chicago"

I'm new here, and I'm sure he's been around a while, but that's funny stuff. My Dad's wife is from Chicago, and when her relatives come west to visit he tells them "Welcome to the United States of America".

 

You ain't kiddin'....

 

The point at which the cam opens and closes the intake and exhaust valves can have an affect on how much exhaust remains in the cylinder for the next event. Closing the exhaust valve earlier in the cycle will "act" like an EGR. Old style EGR setups actually routed exhaust gasses from the header back into the intake manifold.
Either way they are power robbing and useless unless you are the EPA.

 

Well, let me help you get up to speed then, since that's your aim.

Backwards compatible and equivalent in performance are completely separate things!

ULSD is a great thing, imo-- this removes the need for such high TBNs and the alkaline salts that are added to oils to increase the TBN.

CJ-4 oil has much lower anti-wear additive levels overall. This results in more engine wear under equivalent usage profiles. If you don't need a CJ-4 oil, you WILL see higher wear rates using this oil compared to a CI-4+ oil.

Significant? Well, that depends. Just because the oil allows more wear doesn't mean that the user will ever notice a difference. For most users, they will never notice the extra wear from running a CJ-4 oil.

But under lab conditions when tested on wear measurement rigs, a CJ-4 oil will almost universally be outperformed by any major CI-4 oil because of the mandated reductions in EP additives.

The lubrication testing mentioned inthe linked article is a joke. 300 hours? That's MAYBE a single drain interval on a class-8 truck. On an ISB, that 2 or 3 oil changes. Wear measurement at short intervals like this is not very useful.


That said, a well-designed diesel engine doesn't need a super duper oil. At the Cummins Tech Center, we are testing out heavy duty engines for foreign markets with CF grade oil, which almost any gasser oil can meet.


I've seen a heavy duty Cummins engines regularly survive a 1000hr abuse tests using CF grade oil.


For certain usage profiles, thinking outside the box for lubes is appropriate.

For example, my truck operates about 90% of the time below t-stat temperature-- it rarely even shows heat on the gauge. My starts are all cold and trips all short.

My oil temps never get hot enough to where a 40wt oil is at it's proper viscosity. A 15w-40 is optimal if you are towing and spending lots of time with the engine up to temp and working hard.

But for me, a 30wt or even a 20wt oil would be far more appropriate! A 15-40 is simply far too thick.

JH
(Cummins HD engineering)

 

Thanks for your great insight, JH!

I hope things are going well for you in the new job. I heard/read somewhere that Cummins may be laying off some employees, and thought immediately about you. If it's true, I sure hope your name is not on the list.

..

 

I think you will be fine without synthetic unless you really want to extend those oil changes. I use regular dino oil and send samples into Blackstone Labs to be analysed. I go 9K on the changes and everytime they sample has come back with enough TBN to go at least to 10K+ miles. I have done this three times to verify my results. My next change will be 11K and as long as the samples continue to come back good I hope to get to 15K changes.

You might want to try a 7or 8K oil change and get it analysed. Over time it will save you money and save a little bit of foreign oil payed for with American money and then dumped in the waste collection tank when it's still good. However, I believe you should change your oil at least once a year regardless of milage.

The samples also let you know how your engine is wearing and how well you filtering air and other things.

 

I'm no expert... just saying that CJ is the future...and everyone on here is trashing it as garbage, probably because amsoil told them so..

funny thing how every "other" manufacturer out there is claiming CJ-4 has superior valve train wear performance.. while the "internet experts" on this forum somehow know better.

why would cummins put their name as one of the framers of the API CJ4 spec? because it's crap oil, and will kill all our engines in half the time?

I duno... you tell me...

 

I don't think they're saying its junk.Our engines were designed when CI-4 was the norm and as long as I can find CI its what I'm gonna run.Some people have done some independent testing and the one consistant is the lower levels of zinc and phospherus or an additive better known as ZDDP. The CJ's have all been in the neighborhood of 800-1000ppm's while the CI's are in the 1300-1500ppm range.A good break in oil will be in the 3000ppm range.This may all be irrellevant on a bone stock truck but for the ones getting into the hp mods anything extra that can help minimize undue wear is money well spent in my book.

 

Of course every "other" manufacturer is claiming the CJ has Superior valve train wear performance - - - -THEY ARE SELLING IT. That being said, I would not be afraid to run Delo 400 CJ for a run and do a UOA, and see how it did. Go to www.bobistheoilguy.com and you can find more "internet experts". There are some tribologist that are members there. You are right, CJ is the bulk of the future. However even Mobile one stated their new formula could not go as long in OTR trucks as previous CI +4 version (by about 25% IIRC)

 

I have 100K on my 04. I switched to sythetic at 30K. mileage went up a little 1-2. I change it at 10K, suoer black. It starts better in the cold esp if I can't plug it in.

 

I saw a note in a recent issue of "Lubes and Greases" which is a trade publication of sorts.

It showed that in large fleet usage, many fleets are still using a CI-4 in violation of 2007+ requirements. It turns out it's cheaper in some cases to replace the DPF when it's poisoned from the CI, than to shorten the intervals and go with the CJ.

PDogg: you are correct the CJ-4 *is* the future. But you are mistaken if you think that Cummins is a "framer" of the spec. Oil specs are set by the API. Hence, you have to buy a license from the API if you want to market your oil with the "donut" on it. Each oil manufacturer submits samples for testing and the API tests them to make sure they meet the minimum performance specs, yet doesn't exceed the maximum specs for bad things: SAPS, etc.

If you were an engine manufacturer having a new oil spec forced on you, wouldn't you want to participate in that process to make sure your engines will survive with it? Hence, the inclusion of the Cummins B and M as some of the engines in the CJ test profile. Cummins participation in this is most likely through the partnership of the EMA (Engine Manufacturer's Association) and the API. It's a big bureaucratic mess between the EPA, API, EMA, and various engine and oil companies.

As for the Cummins logo being on a bottle of oil, that's Cummins' partnership with Ashland, AKA Valvoline. Cummins uses and endorses Premium Blue exclusively. This isn't because Delo or Rotella is an inferior oil and only PB is up to par.

It's because Cummins basically got to drive the additive recipe for PB. Cummins isn't an oil company, and they have no interest in selling oil. But Ashland offered Cummins the chance to tailor a lube to their exact preferences, and Cummins jumped at the chance, with their top lube guys tweaking an oil formulation that delivered the most of what Cummins thought was important.

So whether a person likes valvoline or not, the PB is essentially a Cummins-designed oil manufactured by Ashland.

CJ-4 will eventually be a very significant change in HD lubrication, probably on par with what Fuel Injection did to gas engines 25 years ago. Unfortunately, the additives that can meet the requirements are still being developed, as the oil standbys of ZDDP ZDTP, MoS2, etc are no longer allowed in high concentrations.

JH