INsIdious

Im kinda new to diesals and Dodge in Particular. My dad talked me into getting an 03 2500 4x4 Quad Cab. Has the SO engine. and Auto transmission. Had no real problems untill about 7000 miles. I was starting to get a loss of power. I was due for an oil change anyways. The dealer mech told me my fuel filter was in the worst shape he had ever seen for 7000 miles. Advised me to find another supplier. We only have 2 stations that have diesal where i live. For the first 7000 i only bought fuel at 1 station. After the filter problem i switched exclusivly to the only remaining station in town. Now at 11500 miles i am clattering at low rpm like an overheated gas engine. also a very noticeable knock at low rpm (pulling into my driveway). I called the dealer mechanic and described the situation to him and he advised my pump was probably gone due to bad fuel and he doubted warranty would cover it as it is contaminated fuel. I have plenty of power still. and have only taken it to that dealer for service. I dont have a mobile fuel lab to test the diesal before i fill up so i dont understand the no warranty issue. I was also told at my very first service that i had to exclusivly use a dodge dealer for all service or their would be no warranty on anything. (is this true?)
The first service was free at 3400 at 7000 i was hit for 178.20, at 10320 the bill was 102.23. and that was only oil changes and inspection. The 7000 mile service did include new fuel filter. Is this all normal?? or should i be trying to contact someone for help.
any help or advice would be appreciated. BTW i have only pulled my 10000 pound 5th whl camper twice with it for a total of probably 250 miles last year.

GrandpasRam

Not sure I will be much help here, so maybe others will come into the discussion. As far as the contaminated fuel goes, no equipment OEM is going to cover contaminated fuel damage - you'll have to take that up with your supplier. You'll probably have to have the mechanic that serviced it help you document the cause of the equipment failure as contaminated fuel, then talk to the fuel supplier. If the fuel supplier doesn't give you any satisfaction, then you will undoubtably have to consider the legal route to get compensation on it. If you suspect that none of your available suppliers are getting high grade fuel (sounds like the case here), you may want to consider using an additive to boost the cetane level a little, which may help reduce the low-end clatter (although some may remain as a normal thing when producing low-end load anyway). For the service costs, they don't look too far out of line, but they're not great either. A lube, oil, and filter at my dealership runs me $68 plus change, the fuel filter about another $30 including filter, so your last service was about in line with what mine runs. The towing is about the same as mine (see my signature), but I make three to five trips a year (550 miles round trip) with mine to deer camp. I have noticed the truck runs better after a towing trip - these things seem to like pulling something down the road to keep them happy. Hope the info I given here helps. Good luck, and keep us posted as to how this turns out.

INsIdious

I have tried to do a little homework this morning in regards to the 2 stations here in town. I simply asked them their Cetane rating on their fuel. BIG MISTAKE... Both came down on me like a ton of bricks. Neither knew what the cetane rating was and in their words. "if my truck has a problem. it is just that My Problem. the following is points made by both station managers

1-Cetane doesnt mean squat.
2-Their diesal is supplied by one supplier who delivers it from 1 refinery. (Total petroleum in Ardmore, OK).
3-Their tanks are less than 4 years old and in good shape.
4-They change their fuel filters on pumps once a month.
5-Nobody else is complaining
6-your problem is quite simple. You bought a dodge.

In other words, this day started out bad and is getting worse. I love the truck, but with the banging and stuff going on, i am afraid i am doing major damage to a very large investment.

Tom488

It sounds like your dealer already has his mind made up that it's a fuel problem, and will want to charge you thousands of dollars to replace the pump (probably injectors, too). The high prices on service, and the statement that, "you have to use us for everything or no warranty" seems to portray an image of a service dept. that sees a relatively inexperienced truck buyer as a money pit opportunity.

I'd take the truck to another dealer, and ask them to look for the source of the knocking. If questioned about the fuel, simply tell them "Well, I change fuel filters every oil change (7500 miles), and I only buy from the big supplier in the area, where all the other trucks get their fuel from". You have a 100K warranty on the engine - make sure it gets put to use if necessary.

As for the low-RPM clatter, I'm assuming this is happening all the time, even with the engine warm? (It's perfectly normal for these engines to rattle like mad when cold - just the nature of the beast).

natstayl

What Tom488 said. I'm assuming you bought the truck new from a Dodge dealer and no one at anytime added gasoline to the fuel tank. Don't volunteer anything because everything you said here is all "here say" anyway and it's up to the dealer to prove what caused the problem if indeed it is the pump and/or the injectors. Take it to the selling dealer and tell them there's problem and be specific; duplicate and demonstrate the knock to the service man. If they say they don't hear anything, ask to speak to the manager in charge and then the Zone mgr. If you're still not satisfied ask, who at Daimler-Chrysler takes customer complaints and how do you contact them?
The warranty is legally obligated to pay for it unless they can prove negligence or abuse etc. A couple of guys on this forum have had their trucks bought back and ordered another. Try not to tick the dealer off he can be your best ally.
Nat

INsIdious

I have a new information. btw, thnx for responses.
I went to the local parts store today and told them the problem i have. They sold me a small bottle of fuel conditioner called Lucas. supposed to be good for gas and diesal. I poured it in the tank and headed for work 15 miles away. Halfway to work the engine sound changed somewhat. (for the better i think). Before at 65MPH if you goosed it a little it would clatter bad. This time i goosed it and for the first time heard the Turbo spool up without a load. Still a little clatter at times. But i think it is normal diesal clatter. I could not hear the knock i was hearing before adding the fuel treatment. I cautiously think maybe i am heading in the right direction.
I am taking it in for Oil change Thursday and Im gonna sit down with the mechanic and manager and discuss a few things in detail.
Thnx for the input guys. it is very much appreciated.

mymaur

This may be an obvious question, but have you changed the air filter?

INsIdious

Stranger still, I purchased this truck new (had 87Miles) on may 15th 2003. In all the times i turned they key on i have never heard the fuel pump cycle. I went out just a few minutes ago to start it, and turned the key and i heard a 3 second bdrbdrbdrbdr sound. kinda like those old in line pumps my dad put on his boat once. I am certain i have never heard that sound since buying the truck. The truck is still sounding good after treating the fuel. I wonder if i am just paranoid and hyperlistening to every squeak and rattle now.
I only drove the truck 12.9 miles since treating the fuel. The fuel treatment i used says nothing on the bottle or their website(www.lucasoils.com) about boosting Cetane levels, Only that it will clean injectors, lubricate fuel system and solve low sulphur fuel problems. now the following observations.

1-The engine is noticibly smoother and quieter.
2-For the first time i am hearing the Turbo whine a bit at 65mph/2000rpm. Only other time i ever could hear it was while pulling a heavy load with the window down and the sound echoing off of buildings or other vehicles.
3-As mentioned above i am now hearing the fuel pump cycle before start. as loud as it is i am certain i would have heard it before.

What the heck all this means i sure as heck dont know. Is it fuel quality, Fuel delivery, or have i just went crackers.

INsIdious

My apolgies. Yes i have changed the air filter on friday the 12th. indicator was at 60%. Used a regular paper filter by wix like the one that came out of it. I noticed no differance at all afterwards.

INsIdious

Its a slow night at work, so i have been running the truck up and down our 3 mile quarry road here at work. All the issues in my first post are no more. The truck is not clattering excessivly, power is good. I hit the switch on the console and it shows. 18mpg. avg since last fillup. I am still easily hearing the turbo whine. (but that sounds good to me). No knock at all. I also had 3 coworkers try to listen for it. It is not there now.
I am gonna call it a night on this issue and call the dealer a beg off the service untill Monday. I plan on running the remaining half tank of fuel down by the weekend and then refilling at a truck stop in Ardmore 30 miles away. See what it does then.
I have never been a big fan of additives. And i am a bit skeptical that something can cure a problem in 12 miles. The only thing i can figure is if something was sticking and the additive broke it loose.

tcb

ask around about the stations where you buy. my experience, for what its worth, is when people get that defensive that quick they have heard the complaints before. get a sample and send off to be tested. the conditioners might be all that is needed to clear up bad fuel. don't let the manager blow you off, you may have found the answer to several diesel drivers questions around town.

mymaur

I agree 100% with TCB. The manager at the fuel stop is sure not going to admit he might have a preblem and based on his response to your querry to him, I'd say he is a genuine redneck.

Have you been getting any water out of the fuel filter?

If the additive fixes it, Then go with it till you find a better fueling solution.

Good luck.

INsIdious

The truck is still running good. smooth easy and quiet. However I can hear the knock again. engine warm at idle in drive. go to park and it immediatly stops. I am going to crawl around under it and see if i can locate it. I read a post here about transmission tube and another about 4x4 lever. The noise sounds like it is under my feet with door open while listening.

Update.. Knock is barely audible while cold. AFter feeling of injector lines while at idle in drive. the #1 line has a definatenly stonger pulse feel to it than the other 5. The pulse on #1 is also in time with the knock.

Update.. I can feather the throttle while in drive hot idle and the knock dissapears. is not audible again for 15 seconds or so after returning to idle. I am beginning to think this is nothing to worry about. I am guessing i just had bad fuel causing excessive clattering and now i am going outta my way to find problems that are not there. Im just gonna pop a prozac or two and go fill up with some quality fuel and enjoy my truck.
thnx for putting up with another ninny newbie guys. i have learned a lot from this site. i have no doubt i will learn more.

Weatherbyman

I am not a big fan of additives either, but after hearing the stories about the stuff that can be in diesel fuel, I started using Standyne Performance Formula at every fill-up as a cheap insurance policy.

GrandpasRam

Insidious, I agree with the others about the response you got from the manager at the fuel stop. If the additive has helped, I would continue using it. I was not much for additives either until I got some poor quality fuel one time in my old '99, then did some research on this site and a few others on fuel and additives. Now I will go out of my way to get quality fuel, and the two best-rated additives I saw in a comparison were Stanadyne Performance fomula and John Deere. John Deere has a summer formula that seems to be mainly for lubricity with a small cetane increase, and a winter formula that has anti-gel agents along with the lubricity and cetane improvements. I have a John Deere dealership close by, so I use that, but either one will do. It would also help us when reading your posts for assistance if you would put your truck in your signature. Hope all works out well.