Software update screwed up my truck
07-03-2005, 06:04 PM
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Software update screwed up my truck
The dealer took upon themselves to do the software update for my truck, and now it is all screwed up. My computer is showing that i am getting better mileage in the city than when I am on the highway. I went from almost 21.8 mpg to 16 mpg on the highway...with a 19.8mpg avrerage to 16.2 after the update. Its going back...but can they reload the old program?
07-03-2005, 08:49 PM
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From what I have read sevral places once an controller has been updated you cannot reprogram it back to an earlier version. I have read where the updating software in the controller along with the programming box's software will not allow going back.
07-03-2005, 11:18 PM
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Which TSB flash did they perform? Have you reset all functions on your overhead since the update? I would check hand calculated #'s before I got too worried about what the overhead computer says. Let's hope its just bad data in the computer.
07-06-2005, 12:13 PM
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I did the reset, and even did an experiment to confirm what has happened. Took the truck out on the highway, and from the computer and mileage/gas usage after a fill I have lost 3.4mpg. The truck is back at the dealer now, but I am sure that there is little that they can do because they did this to me once before on a 24V truck that I had...lost almost 5mpg. I have no idea as to what flash they did?
IF they are unable to correct this, what are my options? That is too big of a hit to accept, as they did the software upgrade to shotgun a problem I was experiencing with my tranny (downshifting on declines and flat roads while towing).
IF they are unable to correct this, what are my options? That is too big of a hit to accept, as they did the software upgrade to shotgun a problem I was experiencing with my tranny (downshifting on declines and flat roads while towing).
07-08-2005, 09:48 AM
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Well, dealer says they cannot find anything wrong (no trouble codes, as that is all they are looking for as it seems), and they cannot explain as to why I lost over 3mpg when they did the software change. Truck is still under warranty, so what am I to do now? I cannot accept taking that kind of a mileage hit , so can I hold them legally responsible?
, so can I hold them legally responsible?
07-08-2005, 10:25 AM
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I would just drive it a while after the update. It may adjust after the changes. I don't know why you are claiming "The dealer took upon themselves to do the software update for my truck..." when it looks like you were having issues you were working with them on with your trans. I looked over your posts.
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07-08-2005, 10:34 AM
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I brought it in for the tranny to be looked into, but all they did was the software upgrade (to me that is shotgunning the problem) and told me that they did the software upgrade to see if that would fix things. They also mentioned that it would correct the computer read back for mileage (which was pretty close as it was was, maybe a few 10th's off of what I would calculate manually) and I would get better mileage. The tranny issues were with towing, for which I have not done yet.
I do not see how things will get better with time, but if you know how this would be likely to happen...enlighten me! I have run 200 miles, all highway, constant speed, and I am down 3.4mpg from where it was before it went in. My computer actually shows that I get better mileage in the city versus highway, and the exhaust smells much stronger than before (stronger = rich). New fuel filter was put in before I ran the highway mileage, tires at proper pressure, so what else could be the problem if it was not the software change?
I do not see how things will get better with time, but if you know how this would be likely to happen...enlighten me! I have run 200 miles, all highway, constant speed, and I am down 3.4mpg from where it was before it went in. My computer actually shows that I get better mileage in the city versus highway, and the exhaust smells much stronger than before (stronger = rich). New fuel filter was put in before I ran the highway mileage, tires at proper pressure, so what else could be the problem if it was not the software change?
07-08-2005, 11:25 AM
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I think you really need to find out which TSB XX-XXX-XX was performed. Are we talking an engine ECM flash or something else related to transmission shifting? When I had my flash done it was listed on my receipt. If not, call your service writer and ask. You have a right to know.
Secondly, please explain what you mean by:
"The tranny issues were with towing, for which I have not done yet."
If I read that as stated, it would seem to imply you were attempting to fix a problem that you had not experienced while towing??? Or, do you mean there was some kind of problem you had not gotten around to fixing yet? Must be missing something here. Elaborate, more data please! Specifically, what were the "exact symptoms" it was originally taken in for.
I don't think anyone here can help troubleshoot your situation without more specifics to work with. Otherwise, we are just shotgunning baseless opinions at you.
Secondly, please explain what you mean by:
"The tranny issues were with towing, for which I have not done yet."
If I read that as stated, it would seem to imply you were attempting to fix a problem that you had not experienced while towing??? Or, do you mean there was some kind of problem you had not gotten around to fixing yet? Must be missing something here. Elaborate, more data please! Specifically, what were the "exact symptoms" it was originally taken in for.
I don't think anyone here can help troubleshoot your situation without more specifics to work with. Otherwise, we are just shotgunning baseless opinions at you.
07-08-2005, 11:40 AM
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The tranny problems where when I was towing, and since I have gotten the truck back I have not towed with it. I have the repair sheet, and there is no mention of which flash was done.
The tranny was downshifting on declines and level roads while towing either a 4K or 2K pound load. I was getting a vibration while towing these same loads between 45-50mph that you could feel through the steering wheel and floor of the truck...but only at that speed...and only while towing. Mileage was great while towing, with 17.6mpg at 65mph towing 2K pounds, and 16.5mpg same speed with the 4K boat on the back. Since the flash I am getting 18.4mpg at 65mph compared to the 21.6 mpg that I was getting (and yes, that number is real). My average was 19.4 between city and highway, and a little less on the winter blend.
I was getting 2mpg better than a guy here at work with his 04 Duramax with his 5 speed allison, so that is what I am bummed by this.
The tranny was downshifting on declines and level roads while towing either a 4K or 2K pound load. I was getting a vibration while towing these same loads between 45-50mph that you could feel through the steering wheel and floor of the truck...but only at that speed...and only while towing. Mileage was great while towing, with 17.6mpg at 65mph towing 2K pounds, and 16.5mpg same speed with the 4K boat on the back. Since the flash I am getting 18.4mpg at 65mph compared to the 21.6 mpg that I was getting (and yes, that number is real). My average was 19.4 between city and highway, and a little less on the winter blend.
I was getting 2mpg better than a guy here at work with his 04 Duramax with his 5 speed allison, so that is what I am bummed by this.
07-08-2005, 12:37 PM
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A few more questions:
1. How many miles on your truck and is it 100% stock?
2. When did you first notice the towing issues? Had it been OK when towing previously or was this a first tow? Any recent changes?
3. Was the undesired downshifting & vibration with tow-haul engaged or not, or both? I had a similiar downshifitng problem on an older truck when it was intermittantly jumping out of OD and downshifitng just as if you were pushing the tow-haul button. It seemed to act like a bad sensor or electrical/switch related gremlin. Not sure what the dealer did to fix it as I sold it shortly there after.
I would do a tow real soon to see if they made any progress in fixing the shifting/vibration problem. If not fixed , you are back to square one anyway and have good reason to take it back to further diagnose and ultimately fix the problem(s).
However, it sounds like you are more bummed out by the loss of mileage than anything else. Once you find out the s/w flash TSB # there are probably members that can look it up and tell you what that TSB did. Since your truck is under warranty the dealer would submit it as a warranty claim to get paid, so it has to be documented. I would call and ask them to FAX you the complete records or go in and ask politely to see the records of what was done. You could use it as an opportunity to build a better relationship with your dealer/service writer. Sounds like you are gonna need their support to sort it all out.
1. How many miles on your truck and is it 100% stock?
2. When did you first notice the towing issues? Had it been OK when towing previously or was this a first tow? Any recent changes?
3. Was the undesired downshifting & vibration with tow-haul engaged or not, or both? I had a similiar downshifitng problem on an older truck when it was intermittantly jumping out of OD and downshifitng just as if you were pushing the tow-haul button. It seemed to act like a bad sensor or electrical/switch related gremlin. Not sure what the dealer did to fix it as I sold it shortly there after.
I would do a tow real soon to see if they made any progress in fixing the shifting/vibration problem. If not fixed , you are back to square one anyway and have good reason to take it back to further diagnose and ultimately fix the problem(s).
However, it sounds like you are more bummed out by the loss of mileage than anything else. Once you find out the s/w flash TSB # there are probably members that can look it up and tell you what that TSB did. Since your truck is under warranty the dealer would submit it as a warranty claim to get paid, so it has to be documented. I would call and ask them to FAX you the complete records or go in and ask politely to see the records of what was done. You could use it as an opportunity to build a better relationship with your dealer/service writer. Sounds like you are gonna need their support to sort it all out.
07-08-2005, 02:37 PM
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29K on the truck, and it is bone stock.
Towing issues did not start until a month ago, and there have been no changes made to the truck.
The downshifting occurred with the "tow button" off, which is how I have towed with it since I have owned the truck.
Just got off the phone with the dealer, who stated that they just got off the phone with the head engineer at Dodge about this. The flash I was told was to correct the downshifting and overhead readback. I was also told the flash covers 5 things, and the dealer told me that there is only 1 flash for my truck...and it sounds like I got all 5 of the updates (the person I spoke with could not give me the TSB # as he could not find it).
Anyway, back to what Dodge says. The service person is trying to tell me that I should expect to lose mileage as the trans will now hook up quicker so therefore there is more power. That of course makes no sense, as I point out that with less slippage that the power is being used more efficiently my mileage should improve (they agreed). I am then told that Dodge has noted that with some of the flashes that the mileage will drop...but admitted that it should not be by the amount that I have experienced.
The dealer wants to keep the truck and put a few hundred miles on it to "try a few things", but I need it back for the weekend. I do expect to tow, but it is local with no highway driving. I am going to have to cipher on this, as this is the second time that this has happened as a cummins owner. My first time was when I had a new 24V, and the dealer did a reprogram and I went from 21 mpg to a whopping 15.4mpg...so I traded in the truck and bough a gas burner.
Towing issues did not start until a month ago, and there have been no changes made to the truck.
The downshifting occurred with the "tow button" off, which is how I have towed with it since I have owned the truck.
Just got off the phone with the dealer, who stated that they just got off the phone with the head engineer at Dodge about this. The flash I was told was to correct the downshifting and overhead readback. I was also told the flash covers 5 things, and the dealer told me that there is only 1 flash for my truck...and it sounds like I got all 5 of the updates (the person I spoke with could not give me the TSB # as he could not find it).
Anyway, back to what Dodge says. The service person is trying to tell me that I should expect to lose mileage as the trans will now hook up quicker so therefore there is more power. That of course makes no sense, as I point out that with less slippage that the power is being used more efficiently my mileage should improve (they agreed). I am then told that Dodge has noted that with some of the flashes that the mileage will drop...but admitted that it should not be by the amount that I have experienced.
The dealer wants to keep the truck and put a few hundred miles on it to "try a few things", but I need it back for the weekend. I do expect to tow, but it is local with no highway driving. I am going to have to cipher on this, as this is the second time that this has happened as a cummins owner. My first time was when I had a new 24V, and the dealer did a reprogram and I went from 21 mpg to a whopping 15.4mpg...so I traded in the truck and bough a gas burner.
07-08-2005, 07:01 PM
#14
sounds like the mechanic whom did the reflash didnt know what he was doing. with the info you have given. I would steer clear from them having your truck for a couple hundred km's. They will no doubt drive the **** out of it and then tell you nothing is wrong. They can hook their computer up to your truck and have them diagnose the problem. If they cannot do it then have them bring a engineer up from DC. Other wise they may cause more harm then good. It is fishy that they didnt know or have the TSB number on hand, Very fishy, be very through with them and what has happened since the truck has gone in. Have them document everything in their computer and get a copy of it. Make sure they give you a copy of the TSB they did to your truck and what all it entails. But definatyly sounds like the Tech screwed up.
07-08-2005, 10:31 PM
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I agree with the "fishy"consensus...they seem to know a lot about the TSB but have no fricking idea what TSB # was applied??? I would walk in and ask to talk directly with the tech that did the reflash if your service writer cannot help. I think anytime they do a ECM reflash they have to put a placard label identifying what reflash was done under the hood (mine has one). Usually, near the radiator cross member. If there is not one, then I would be even more suspicious.
"Talked to the Head Engineer at DC"...Hmmm...Ask them which head engineer and what was his name? Probably just a STAR representative. Sounds like you are getting BS-ed. Where are you located? Are there any other dealers you can take it to?
"Talked to the Head Engineer at DC"...Hmmm...Ask them which head engineer and what was his name? Probably just a STAR representative. Sounds like you are getting BS-ed. Where are you located? Are there any other dealers you can take it to?