I hope to try to get them replaced next week i'm supose to have some time off work.

 

I'm not throwing a pitch for Moog here, but the shop I talked to about them said they use them all the time, and if they cause steering problems it is from their experience the installation of them. He said they are very sensitive to how much torque is used on the stud nut and that if they are over-tightened at all, they will drive terrible. He said they have fixed some that people thought were bad by just re-torquing them.

 

THAT sounds like a shop I'd avoid....

Did they say they use them on Dodge trucks all the time? The design is flawed. Period.

Carli pulled them apart and proved they were designed inadequately, and he showed why they fail. Using a defectively designed part is wrong and dangerous.

Any shop that blankets a statement like that is one I'd never step foot in.

 

They are actually a highly reputable 4x4 shop that specializes in lifted off road vehicles, that is what they mostly do and sell and are the first name a lot of people go to in a pretty good sized area around them.

 

That explains a lot then. Dodge diesels are not off road vehicles. They probably do not ever work on them.

Moogs have been designed improperly for the Dodge diesel ball joint. I would bet the Moogs for Jeeps and half ton Chevys are just fine.

We have dozens of guys on here that have had BAD experiences with Moog ball joints. Dangerous and scary experiences with Moogs installed by top notch shops that have never had a problem with Moog joints. Some of these guys have spent thousands of dollars chasing the problem because the shop said they NEVER had a problem with Moog joints.

Then Carli cut apart a Moog joint and put in an XRF and the problems went away immediately. He found the mating surface inside the joint was designed in a way that it would cause binding when the weight of the truck was on it. Turns free when lifted off the ground though.

Do what you want. You have all the information right here. Some folks must learn by experiencing the pain. Maybe you'll get lucky, but if you don't, well, you were warned by dozens of guys who have gone through this.

 

I'd say that is probably the case, I don't know how many heavy duty dodges they see, they do work on a lot of different cars as they do tune ups, oil changes, etc as well. I know they have done some dodges, just doubt it was that many and I don't know for sure, but I am guessing the ball joint design in the 1500's is totally different than ours. They are a big name around here in off road as well as just getting service work done because they do good work and have great prices on tires, wheels, etc. Like I said though, I was never trying to side with Moog, just saying what they told me. I won't ever use them on my truck either, even if they were good because I want something heavier duty with my lift and tires to last me.

 

Just FYI, I installed a pair of the Moog lower ball joints on my truck over a year ago, and the truck drove horrible from the day they were installed. After reading about everyone else's problems, I switched the lower ball joints out with factory Mopar ball joints, problem gone, the truck drove perfect again. I filed a labor claim with Moog and they paid it and gave me my money back for the ball joints no questions asked. They know the ball joints were made wrong, or they would have fought the labor claim.

 

This topic was talked about before in another forum. At first all you could find was the Moog Ball Joints compared to the cheap factory ones. Now there are more choices to choose from. I have not had to change my ball joints as of yet (+65,000 miles). Although, I have heard of nothing but good things of the XRF branded joints.

Lost Lake, before you start bashing a shop, maybe you should get all the details first. Understand that the shop was just making a generalize statement about the Moog branded ball joints for many of their service claims. Due to many people using "tighter is the better," when it comes to torque specs or procedures. Do not get me wrong, but having the correct torque can make a world of difference. Just think of all the cylinder heads that are ruin by people who do not know how to torque them down correctly let alone to spec.

Shawn

 

I forgot to post this above. Here is a Ebay store that has the XRF for all fours for around $200 dollars.

(http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-...Q5fAccessories)

Shawn

 

I replaced the Moog lowers with O.E. ones and it made all the difference in the world. I thought it was just my truck or I was being too sensitive.

I have Carli uppers and O.E. lowers and it drives great now.

Good luck,

Craig

 

I've had Moogs in the '07 for over a year now (adjustable uppers), no problem, steers and handles like new. Had it lined up again last month by the shop that installed them in Jan '09 (only because it got new wheels and tires) and they said there was no detectable wear in the joints. Although unfortunately, the '08-up style Mopar OEM tie rod was already shot in just under 10k miles. Fortunately it was replaced free of charge under warranty with a greaseable Moog piece. Did cure a slight wander which I hadn't even noticed until after I paid for the alignment and headed home.

I suppose YMMV.

 

There is a steering specialty shop near me,he rebuilds steering gears mainly ,for dealerships etc.,but he also sells all the the steering accesories that guys need for their trucks too.Got my DSS their.He told me never to put Moog in my truck,they wear out quick and can cause problems.He recomended Spicer but I am sure there are other good makes available too ,just not Moog.

 

I got my DSS and track bar from the same guy I am sure. He told me the same thing about Moog.

 

There is actually a bit of truth to this, and I commend the shop for verifying installation practices before simply trying to sell more parts. To me, that gives a shop credibility. I have installed Moog parts for years and believe they are a decent quality product and a reasonable alternative to OEM, with the exception of 3rd gen Dodge ball joints.

Whwn the 2nd gen trucks first came out, there were some steering issues right from the factory. These trucks were very sensitive to ball joint torque, and a retorque would occasionally cure a truck with poor returnability. It actually became a Service Bullletin from Dodge. Even during ball joint installation, after torquing you can swivel the knuckle on the new ball joints and feel whether it is too stiff or not, and then change the feel dramatically by retorquing.

The problems caused by ball joint replacement on the 3rd gen trucks is, no doubt, more serious than a simple retorquing procedure, but the world's best ball joint isn't going to work perfectly if it is installed wrong.

 

I finally replaced my Moog B.J. with O.E. 2 weeks ago after fighting with the truck for 6 months. The truck now drives like new. I have been a mechanic for 30+ years and did both installs myself following the service manual and all torque procedures using quad4x4 B.J. press (very nice kit). Not saying I couldn't have made a mistake. I payed very close attention to everything when I tore the truck down, everything appeared ok. After replacement when truck drove nice again I wanted to cut the Moogs apart like Carli did to see what wear the Moogs showed but was told by moog they wanted the joints back to inspect. I think they know they have a problem.
Steve