Rednecktastic

This is a tech question not a fuel price question, there is another forum for that.


I've done some research and found that converting my engine over to LNG is very costly but when looking in a little more I see that you can run Propane as a supplement at a great %.

It seemed like it is easy enough.... just pipe it into the air intake.


How would i do this? Something like 60% propane would cut down a good bit on fuel costs. (if my assumption of it being much cheaper is correct)


How about a programmer or future mods? Could I still "turn her up" ?


Also instead of propane it seems like natural gas would be easier to fill since I could possibly do that at home.?



Hope this is a good discussion, thanks in advance!

htgreen3

I have had the opportunity to have used both a propane vehicle, a 1965 Ford F150 (this was in 1965) and a late 90's Ford Crown Vic that was a CNG conversion. Both had great low end torque as you did not need high engine rpm to vaporize the incoming fuel. Regular natural gas from your house service will not work well as you need to pressurize it to a put sufficient amounts in a tank to have some decent range. The Crown Vic could be run on either gasoline or CNG, but not at the same time. The problem with the low end torque is that you could make great power will little speed and blow the bottom end out of the engine. This happened with a garbage truck that was propane powered (also in 1965). The Crown Vic had an airbox on top of the carb where the gas vaporized and sucked through the carb, simple conversion to do, if I recall somewhere around $1000 per vehicle for tank, controls and lines.

GaCamper

I think your talking about propane injection...If that is right 60% propane mixed will diesel will toast your motor. A 4 to 1 mix is ideal (that is 1 being propane. There are propane injection kits that you can buy online. Or you can build your own kit, but you need to have some knowledge of propane and how it works. Also no you can not fill a tank with natural gas from you home.....You really need to do a lot more research.

rich

here in texas you also have to get a motor fuel pemit for lp when using it as a motor fuel

NickBeek

Has anyone seen any CNG injection kits on the market? There was an article iin a recent Diesel Power mag and a competitor in an event had CNG injection. CNG is much less expensive than LPG or diesel, and helped out the diesel fuel economy greatly.

Rednecktastic

Alright thanks yall. I'll look into a kit.

Old Hat

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/6-...group-buy.html

DiezelSmoke

Here is an LPG system I built for about $100.00.

https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...d.php?t=206648

I get frustrated when I hear the types of mileages they are claiming, these people would make good politicians they only tell half the story, when you net out the fuel used the mileage is only about 1-2 mpgs more. I looked over the info in the above posts and would not buy from these people. Also running the amounts they are talking will eventually ruin the engine. The reason is the LPG or CNG will ignite long before the engine reaches TDC, this pre-ignition will erode pistons and cause low compression symptoms. LPG or CNG engines are far lower compression and are spark ignition. My system goes through about 1-20# LPG to 3 tanks of diesel. Using these types of fuel in a diesel was meant only to be a catalyst for complete burning of the diesel fuel and should only be used as such or engine failure will be the result.

NickBeek

Diezel, excellent link, nice set up! Thank you for sharing it with us.

mj007

What Nick said X2 .... Thanks!

GaCamper

DiezelSmoke is right. Don't believe everything you read. The last thing you want to do is over load your engine with LPG or CNG

I also built my own system for my old "93". I spent around $250.00
The system sets up so it injects the propane before the turbo. The
ideal setup is a 1 to 4 ratio, the 1 being propane. You can purchase
the Impco Cobra Vaporizer from any LP Dealer. They will most likely
have to order it for you. The Vaporizer can be used with Vapor or
Liquid. That is one reason I used it. If the bottle should fall
over or you go down a bumpy road and Liquid gets into the fuel line,
the regulator will vaporize the liquid before it enters your air
intake. The Vaporizer also ties into your heater water lines. Hot
water needs to flow through the Vaporizer to be able to vaporize
the Propane if needed. The Regulator comes with a "BLUE" spring. I
changed it out the Blue Spring & installed a "RED" spring. The
spring determines how easy the regulator opens to release the
propane. This system works on "NEG. PRESSURE" So it's more like
supply & demand. The higher the engine rpm's the more propane is
delivered.
It helps if you have a gauge (Water Manometer) that you can measure Neg.
Pressure with. Having a gauge or meter really helps in designing your fuel
tube. I ended up making 5 types of fuel tubes till I found the one that
had the best draw. Each tube I made I would install into the air intake
and hook the gauge to it and the start the truck up. Then run the RPM's
up and see which one had the best Neg. flow. If I remember right at high
RPM my system is pulling a Neg. 7
I installed what is called a "LOAD BLOCK" into the air intake. The
load block has a adjustable screw something like a over sized needle
valve that you are able to adjust to control the amount of propane
being fed into the motor.
Then inside the air intake I have a 3/8 copper tube mounted so the
tip is seating right in the center of the air intake. I cut the end
of the tube in what is called a "Draft Cut" Which is like cutting
it into a point. Cutting a 45 degrees angle and have the front of
the angle cut facing the turbo. As the turbo is sucking air in, the
air passes around the Draft Cut causing a suction (Neg. Pressure) which pulls the
Propane into the air intake. Then the turbo acts as a mixer, mixing
the propane & air together.
Here is a link for you:
http://www.carbturbo.com/default.htm
Carburetion & Turbo Systems
(952) 445-3910 Speak with Eric.....This is where I ordered most of
my parts from.
I ordered the Impco Cobra Vaporizer, 12 volt solenoid lock off,
inline LP Fuel filter from the LP Gas company.
I have a 20# pound cylinder set in the bed of the truck. It works
great. I have a switch inside the cab so I can turn the system on
and off as I need it. So far I average one 20# pound
cylinder to every 3 1/2 to 4 tanks of diesel.
One key note: You want to mount the Vaporizer so you won't have to
run more then about 18 to 20 inches of vapor line to the intake.
The closer you can get it, the better off you will be.

The system will give you extra power & at best approx average 2 to 4 MPG gain. If you figure the time spent building & setting up the system, the cost of the parts, the cost of propane to make all of this work I won't build another one...

Foxborough

Just remember propane & natural gas have less BTU than Diesel, thats one of the reasons why it's cheaper. Diesel has 140,000 BTU per gallon and propane has around 92,500 BTU per gallon (or 66% of diesel). Natural gas has around 1000 BTU per cubic feet. If you pressurized natural gas to 2000 psi and put it in one of those high pressure tanks (like mig welder, 5' high & 12" round) you would have 270 cubic feet, 270,000 BTU or the equal amount of almost 2 gallons of diesel. Liquid natural gas (LNG) has 85,800 BTU per gallon but you will have to keep it -250* F. FYI