You should give a call to Dan at Quad 4x4. You can look it up on the net. He is very intelligent when it comes to the trannies in our trucks.

Marshall

 

Is it only 2nd gear it grinds in? If it is then it is likely a syncro problem. If it does it in other gears or all gears when going into gear (especially at a stand still) then it is more likely clutch. Personally I would stick tot he factory equivalent of gear oil as it is already synthetic and many have reported problems when going to a different oil. Trashed syncros is one possibility with incorrect oil...not saying this is for sure the problem. The other scenario is if it grinds in more than revers and the engagement height is incorrect then it could be a hydraulic problem, or a clutch problem.

 

alright. thanks. that sounds exactly like one of the problems im having. when the clutch is disengage, it still feels like its tryin to lurch if the truck is ineutral. it also feels like it is dragging a bit. not disengageing all the way. anyways peter at sbc has sent me a brand new one to fix that problem. that is a very great company, and there customer service is wonderful

 

Keep in mind to check the hydraulics also as if the clutch still feels like it is dragging then it is likely related to a faulty clutch slave cylinder, faulty clutch master cylinder or air in the system (no way that I know of to bleed the factory system). This causes not enough travel in the clutch slave cylinder which also means the clutch doesn't fully disengage. There can also be other internal clutch issues that cause the clutch to not fully disengage such as clutch disc torsion springs that have popped out, faulty pressure plate, faulty release bearing, etc. Sounds like you are on the right track so far however.

 

I sure hope so. i think im going to flush er out, put the stock oil back in and the new clutch. figure ill get the flywheel resurfaced again to keep that from being any kind of problem.Might go ahead and upgrade the hydraulics to get that out of the mess.
Has your tranny given you any problems?

 

So far tranny has been good....minor crunch if I shift too quick from 1st to 2nd but otherwise good. As most have found with the NV5600 it can't be shifted like a race and most gears are a little stiff but not too unrealistic. Only problem so far has been a front diff pinion seal starting to leak.

 

You really don't need to re-surface the flywheel again unless it's been damaged but there shouldn't be any wear in 3 weeks. To be sure you can use a straight edge but I doubt there is any wear. It's possible the hydrualics could be an issue but if you didn't change it in the first place or open any lines it's probably OK. You can check the travel of the T/O arm or if there is an inpection plate on the tranny look and see whats going on in there before you replace to many parts. Air isn't as much an issue as with the brake system because the pressures aren't nearly as high. I am putting my money on the disc being a problem. I am eager to find out. At any rate good luck!

 

Air is just as much an issue in the clutch hydraulics as it is a brake system....the bottom line is air compresses which causes less pedal travel. Ever seen a vehicle towed into the shop with a poor clutch and the result is air in the hydraulics due to a minor leak...I have, many times. The excessive pressures don't have anything to do with it as if there is air it will compress instead of moving fluid to do work. The reason I am saying to check it is because the problem has become worse over time. It is possible that the clutch master cylinder or slave cylinder has developed a minor leak which causes air in the system over time, not all at once and can cause the same symptoms. I'm not saying that is the cause but something to definitely check closely.

 

The brake system pressure can be as high as 3000psi but the clutch system takes much less pressure to opperate and will still opperate with some air in the system because even though air is compressable it takes much less force to disengauge a clutch than to opperate the brake system. As a matter of fact brake fluid is HYGROSCOPIC and absorbs moisture through the system even when no fluid is leaking and having a little air is normal. This is why brake fluid boils when heated because the air contains water molecules and it's the water not the brake fluid that actually boils in a hydraulic (brake) system. The point I was trying to make is I doubt highly his problem is related to the hydraulic system, even with some air in the system. It's possible, but hoping he won't replace the m/cyl. and slave/cyl. until he checks the disc. I'm not saying it's not possible but considering it wasn't a problem before why would it be now? Anyway I'll eat crow if I'm wrong but my money is on the disc.

 

His clutch problem sounds exactly like what I had going on. A piece of the ferramic lining chipped from installation/ups/clutch assembly/material defect (pick your choice) and made a high spot. I threw in some pics to show what was going on. That is one reason I dont like ferramic lining. It will also flake off with abuse sometimes. And the bearing debate: Ask Pete to send you a flywheel with the big sealed pilot bearing in it. When you see the size of the bearing you will know you went down the right path.

 

Thats what I was thinking.

 

I installed the massive Torque King bearing/bushing (it's actually like both) from Quad 4x4 with my Con FE.

Worth it. VERY stout bearing.

Con FE is working fine-- no issues.

justin

 

If you think to basic hydraulic theory it doesn't matter what the operating pressure is...air is air and it is compressible regardless of the pressure applied. It is not normal to have any air in the system if it has been bled correctly.....even if moisture is present. Moisture will lower the boiling point of brake fluid but there are minimum DOT standards that must be met including minimum boiling point at full saturation. This is what gives brake fluid it's DOT 3, 4, 5 or 5.1 ratings. There are other differences in the ratings but one of the major issue is boiling point at full saturation. Brake fluid can also boil with no water present in it, this is what gives high temp brake fluid an advantage for race applications (I have to run min boiling temp 550deg F on my race car or bad things happen after several laps).

I'm not saying automatically replace the hydraulics but definitely check them. The problem could be the disc but if it happens over time gradually it can also be a result of the master cylinder secondary seal leaking out the back side also letting some air in, it can also be the slave cylinder leaking slightly also letting some air in. Those are easily diagnosed by lower fluid level and physical signs of leakage at these points. There is the slim possibility of leaking primary seals in the master cylinder but usually when this happens you loose all pedal.
Air is still air and is compressible regardless of what pressure and can cause a poor clutch disengagement...as well as other issues can cause poor disengagement. I have worked on many vehicles in my profession that are towed in for no clutch and to automatically assume the disc is bad without ruling out the hydraulics can be very frustrating when you pull out a tranny only to discover the clutch is ok and the simple to change hydraulics are bad. Again not saying this is the problem with the truck but it is easy enough to check without having to pull the tranny.

Air compressed at 20psi, 100 psi or 3000psi is still compressed air and will transmit little to no movement in a closed hydraulic system. Think of it this way put a steel pipe between your foot and your clutch pedal, if you step on the pipe will the pedal still move normally...yes it will because it is not compressible. Now put an inflated balloon between you foot and the clutch pedal....will the pedal now have full travel, with the same force and travel from your foot applied? No because the balloon compresses and does not transmit full movement or force that your foot used. It comes down to basic hydraulic theory regardless of pressure that is in the system.

 

well i found the part of the problem with it grinding when it goes into second. i dropped the redline mtl/mt90 mix i had in there and it was blacker than my engine oil usually is. no idea what caused it to ruin like that, so i cleaned her out real good and put the stock mopar fluid back in it. very worth it the $90 bucks for five quarts... even with the all famous military discount lol. shifting is a 100 times better, still grinds when i go to second, but feels like its clearing up. only drove about five miles tonight but it feels like its gettin better. i am NOT impressed with the redline. 3000 miles isnt near long enough to justify hoe black it is. ill post some pics of the oil later. clutch is still acting up, but hopefully this was a cheap fix for what could cost 3000. got my fingers crossed it keeps improving

 

I had good results with MTL. But I used straight MTL-- no MT-90 as the MT90 is too thick.

It's hard to think that alone explains our drastically different results, though.