I dont either....but was curious about the study you were talking about.

I do have to agree though, the advantages of the group 4 synthetics are there - I'm just not sure if its worth the cost. Like I said Mobile Delvac is $36 a gallon here...hard to justify when I can get Delvac 1300 for $12.00......I personally dont see advantages of using semi-synthetics or pseudo synthetics (group 3). They cost more than the dino oil and are not necessarily any better.

 

Here's an article on synthetics:

http://www.getahelmet.com/tech/syntheticoil.htm

 

Thanks, good article but again read the credits and it was done from information provided only by manufacturers of synthetic oil. I don't think that synthetics will ever hurt you so you will not have any trouble going to them, the question that I have is whether they will really help you or not. One area they may is with the 03 and up "C" is the extended oil change period that Cummins puts on it. If after break in (around 15 to 20,000 miles) I decide to stay with the 7500 mile oil change recomendation of Cummins, I may look at Amsoil, as I think that is a looooong time for a conventional oil. Understand, I'm not slaming synthetic oil, I would just like to see some studies of actual wear that confirm that it is better than dino, if you stay with the 3-5000 mile change period with dino.

 

Westguy if you actually do some oil analysis tests on your 3rd gen's oil, you'll find 7500 miles is very conservative. They are VERY easy on oil.

 

[quote author=gdh11 link=board=20;threadid=22974;start=15#msg216569 date=1070315754]
...Shell ROTELLA® T Synthetic 5W-40 is a fully synthetic, heavy-duty engine oil. [/quote]

Yes Fully Synthetic but is it?

 

[quote author=Dr. Evil link=board=20;threadid=22974;start=0#msg215621 date=1070125277]
Weird.....no idea why is doesnt work.....seems the URL is too long.

Anyway, go to:

Cummins.com
Customer Assistance (far right side of page)
FAQ
fourth topic down....

**********************************************
Pasted directly from the Cummins.com site:

" Can I use synthetic oil?

Synthetic oils can be used in all Cummins engines, beginning with your second oil change, as long as they meet Cummins guidelines. The only time Cummins recommends not using synthetic oil is during the engine break-in period on a new or newly rebuilt engine. For the first oil change in a new or newly rebuilt engine, Cummins recommends the use of a petroleum-based oil. Cummins recommends that you use a quality multi-viscosity oil that meets or exceeds Cummins Engineering Standard (CES) 20071, 20072 or API CH-4 specification, like Valvoline's?Premium Blue?and Premium Blue?2000. API CG-4 or CF-4 oils are also allowed at reduced oil drain intervals. In addition to the above requirements, Cummins B and C Series engines are equipped with sliding cam tappets which require lubricants meeting category SG, SH or SJ for superior protection of the sliding followers when CG-4 or CF-4 oils are used. For regions where oils meeting the above specifications are not readily available, select a lubricant which meets CES 20075 for use in Cummins B and C Series engines. Choosing the proper lubricant for your application will maximize your drain interval and extend the life of your engine. Consult your Operations and Maintenance Manual for drain interval guidelines appropriate for your specific application and oil selection. "

**********************************************






[/quote]


I think that we may have missed the point at the start of this thread and taken a wrong turn. The FAQ that talks about going to a synthetic oil after the first oil change is in the Automotive Section of the CUmmins FAQ. If you scroll down to the DodgeRam section of the Cummins FAQ, you will see that they still recommend waiting until you have broken the engine in after the 15-20,000 mile point. They haven't changed their recommendation, the 5.9 still needs to be broken in with conventional oil, then you can happily switch.

 

I believe the answer is:

The only time Cummins recommends not using synthetic oil is during the engine break-in period on a new or newly rebuilt engine. For the first oil change in a new or newly rebuilt engine, Cummins recommends the use of a petroleum-based oil.

Again, this is right from the Cummins webpage. They used to recommend the 15-20k mile conversion, but now its after the first oil change.

 

[quote author=Dr. Evil link=board=20;threadid=22974;start=30#msg218787 date=1070654662]
I believe the answer is:

The only time Cummins recommends not using synthetic oil is during the engine break-in period on a new or newly rebuilt engine. For the first oil change in a new or newly rebuilt engine, Cummins recommends the use of a petroleum-based oil.

Again, this is right from the Cummins webpage. They used to recommend the 15-20k mile conversion, but now its after the first oil change.
[/quote]

Right, and their severe service recommendations for 3rd Gen rams is 7500 miles per oil change. Per your quote above, they are saying for the 'first oil change' use petroleum oil. First drain at 7500, petro first change - that would mean switching to synthetic at 15,000 miles if you used the severe service schedule. Could be 30k miles if you use the light duty maintenance schedule.

 

Now that I read it again, you are right. Thank for the correction Lightman.....

 

read the FAQ page again. Here is the FAQ page

++++++++++++begin paste+++++++++++++++++

"Automotive
I am an owner/operator with a 1989 Kenworth and Cummins NTC-400 and have been looking at trucks. I need some information and literature on the Cummins N14 Plus engines.


I read your Internet page on the Cummins C Brake™ by Jacobs? Please tell me how it works.


What are the specs on the N14?


Can I use synthetic oil?


What should the oil temperature be in my N14 Plus?


At what temperature will the engine shut down?


What guidelines should I use to change my fuel filter for my N14 Series engine?


Can I change from conventional oil to synthetic oil without problems?




DodgeRam


What are the 2001/2002 Dodge Ram Turbo Diesel Ratings?


Are fuel or oil additives recommended for use with the Cummins 24-Valve Turbo Diesel?


When should I adjust the valves?


Do Cummins and Mopar sell uprate kits for the Cummins Turbo Diesel?


How many gallons of oil does the Cummins engine take during an oil/filter change?


Where can I purchase the E Brake from Jacobs?


Do I need to use a coolant additive in my Dodge Ram?


Can a Cummins Distributor do warranty work on my Dodge Ram?


What kind of advice can you give me about truck options for my Dodge Ram?


Is it OK to use synthetic oil with my Cummins engine? "

++++++++++end paste++++++++++++++++++++++

notice that there are tow faq questions about synthetic oil. One under the heading of AUTOMOTIVE and one under the heading of DODGE RAM. You are reading the FAQ question under automotive. Here is the answer to that same question, from the CUMMINS FAQ page:

begin paste+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Is it OK to use synthetic oil with my Cummins engine?


Cummins recommends that you not use synthetic motor oil during the break-in period of 5000-20,000 miles, based on the type of driving, to allow proper seating of the piston rings. Beyond that mileage it is OK to use synthetic oil.


end paste+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

here is a reply and the question I sent to cummins power master web site reguarding the use of synthetic and when to switch...

Summary: synthetic oil question

Solution:

Thanks for your Email message.

Cummins neither approves nor disapproves of products made by other companies, outside Cummins family of subsidiaries. Therefore, Cummins does not make recommendations on any particular brand names of oils or oil additives. Cummins does not specify or require customers to use any certain brand of oil or other engine maintenance products. Users should consult the appropriate Cummins Operation and Maintenance manual for specific engine models, for maintenance recommendations from Cummins.

Synthetic oils are recommended by Cummins at low ambient (arctic) temperatures (-10 degF or lower), however, they can be used at other ambient temperatures, providing the recommended oil change intervals are not exceeded. If full synthetic oils are to be used, Cummins recommends that the engine use mineral base oils for the first 2 or 3 oil change intervals, then switch to the synthetic base oil.

Cummins Inc. has established a number of Cummins Engineering Standards (CES), which describe the performance levels of engine oil that must be used in various engines. In addition, Cummins Inc. works through the Engine Manufacturers Association (EMA) with the many technical and marketing organizations responsible for lubricant quality around the world to develop industry specifications that meet Cummins requirements. Table 1 lists the Cummins Engineering Standards and those National and International performance classifications that most closely satisfy them.

Table 1. Cummins Engineering Standards (CES) for Lubricants:

CES Application North American International
Classification Classification

20078 Model year 2002 Heavy API CI-4
Duty and Mid-Range
Engines with EGR

20077 Premium Oil for Pre-2002 See Note 7
Heavy Duty and High
Horsepower Engines outside
North America

20076 Premium Oil for Pre-2002 See Note 6
Heavy Duty and High
Horsepower Engines in
North America

20075 Minimum quality oil for Pre-2002 API CF-4/SG ACEA E-2/E-3
Mid-Range engines in JAMA DH-1
applications outside
North America

20072 Standard oil for Pre-2002 API CH-4 Global DHD-1
engines in all parts of the ACEA E-5
world

20071 Standard oil for Pre-2002 API CH-4 Global DHD-1
engines in all parts of the CH-4/SJ
world

Categories not recommended API CA CB ACEA E-1
DO NOT USE API CC CD CE CG-4

NOTES:
Global DHD-1 = Developed by EMA, ACEA, JAMA
ACEA E-2/E-3= Association des Constructeurs European d'Automobiles
JAMA DH-1 = Japanese Automobile Manufactures Association
Categories not recommended = Use of oils with only these designations poses an undue risk of engine damage for engines designed to use more advanced oils even when drastically shortened oil change intervals are followed.
Note 6 = CES 20076 adds the requirement of a 300 hr Cummins M11 test to API CH-4
Note 7 = CES 20077 adds the requirement of a 300 hr Cummins M11 test to ACEA E
__________________________________________________ __________________
Cummins Recommended SAE Oil Viscosity Grades

Cummins primary recommendation is for the use of 15W-40 multigrade for normal operation at ambient temperatures above 15deg C (5deg F). The use of multigrade oil reduces deposit formation, improves engine cranking in low temperature conditions, and increases engine durability by maintaining lubrication during high temperature operating conditions. Since multigrade oils have been shown to provide approximately 30 percent lower oil consumption, compared with monograde oils, it is important to use multigrade oils in order to ensure your engine will meet applicable emissions requirements. While the preferred viscosity grade is 15W-40, lower viscosity multigrades can be used in colder climates.

Recommended SAE Oil Viscosity Grades vs. Ambient Temperatures

Oil Viscosity Season Ambient
Ratings Temperature Range (deg F)
5w-40 or 15w-40 All seasons Temps above +5 deg F
10w-30 and CI-4    -5 deg F to +115 deg F
10w-30 Winter Conditions  -5 deg F to + 70 deg F
5w-30    -15 deg F to + 70 deg F
0w-30 Arctic Conditions  below 32 deg F


We thank you for your interest in Cummins products. Please let us know if you need assistance in locating the nearest Cummins-authorized Dealer or Distributor Service Provider. For assistance in locating a Service Provider, feel free to use Cummins North America Dealer Locator, which can be found on Cummins website:
http://www.cummins.com/service_locator/index.cfm

Please let us know if you have other questions and if away from your computer or have a time-critical request that needs more urgent attention, feel free to call us toll-free (from North America) at 1-800-DIESELS (343-7357). Customers may also call Cummins switchboard 1-812-377-5000 (worldwide toll call) and ask for the 800-DIESELS Call Center for assistance.

Email direct: powermaster@cummins.com

Regards,
--
Powermaster
Customer Assistance Center
Cummins, Inc.
Columbus, Indiana, USA




Details:
I have a 2003 dodge ram. It currently has 4000 mile and i did my first oil change at 3500. The weather is getting cold and I would like to use a sythetic oil. Can I change over to it now or is it too soon. I am going to use mobil delvac 1.

Dan

 

Hey Dr Evil - You can buy the Delvac 1 5w40 at the Esso bulk retailer (Imperial Oil terminal) in Calgary by 4 x 4L case lots - much cheaper than Wally World. They are at Barlow Tr South of Glenmore Tr...right next to the Shell depot. Look for the tank farm right by the canal....can't miss it.

 

SteveO,

Much thanks for the tip........will check it out. Im from Edmonton and dont get to Calgary much but they should have it up there too.

 

I used to run AMSOIL for a number of years, but figured that regardless of the oil, my engines were outliving the rest of my vehicles. I always change around 5K. The past two vehicles, I have been diligent in changing the rest of the fluids, and that has made a huge difference. Trans, rear-end, and hydro, especially. IMHO, I would rather change dino a little more frequently, then Synthetic less frequent for the same $'s. If I was in a situation where changing was difficult and less frequent or sat around a lot (boat), then it is group 4 all of the way.

I still believe no matter what I run in this engine, it will outlast the rest of the truck.