Lightman

www.avlube.com sells delvac 1, thats where I buy mine.

Lightman

[quote author=gdh11 link=board=20;threadid=22974;start=15#msg216360 date=1070283273]
Wal Mart sells the Shell Rotella T Synthetic for 12.84 a gallon and it is a 5w-40 full synthetic. The price cannot be beat anywhere and it is a great oil.
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Rotella T synthetic is far from a 'great oil' IMO ... It's a group 3 wanna be synthetic like castrol syntec. I dont really see any advantage of a group 3 synethetic over a dino like Rotella T, D1300, or Delo. My thoughts are that if you're going to switch to synthetic, use a FULL synthetic, don't have-a$$ it to save $4

Dr. Evil

I think we are pretty much all aware of the advantages of full synthetic oil. I believe Lightman is pointing out that there are better choices out there - believe it or not all oils are NOT created equal and some are made from much better basestocks. from what I understand has been in the oil biz for years, and he knows his oils....

Lightman

GDH - rotella t synthetic is a group 3 oil, much like castrol syntec. It can be called 'synthetic' but has petroleum base stocks and isn't a true synthetic like the pao/ester based oils like Amsoil or Delvac 1. My point is the group 2 dino's perform just about as well in all categories and sometimes better than the group 3 synthetics. If you're gonna go synthetic, get a real, group 4 synthetic. Just my .02.

Dr. Evil

[quote author=Lightman link=board=20;threadid=22974;start=15#msg216704 date=1070335227]
GDH - rotella t synthetic is a group 3 oil, much like castrol syntec. It can be called 'synthetic' but has petroleum base stocks and isn't a true synthetic like the pao/ester based oils like Amsoil or Delvac 1. My point is the group 2 dino's perform just about as well in all categories and sometimes better than the group 3 synthetics. If you're gonna go synthetic, get a real, group 4 synthetic. Just my .02.
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And the main point is: "group 2 dino oil performs just about as well in all categories and sometimes better than the group 3 synthetics - and its cheaper than the group 3 synthetics".

GDH, not sure what you mean by "getting in a contest" - run whatever oil you want to run - its up to you - its your truck and its your wallet. Just trying to provide the best and most accurate information for everyone else so they can make an informed decision when it comes to buying oil.

As always, Lightman, excellent info.

WestGuy

Gotta agree with lightman on this one. I decided to go to synthetic and had decided on Amsoil. I am not an expert or anywhere close to one on oil, so I searched the web for tests using dino v. synthetic. Synthetic oil does not bear out in the tests and I was biased toward synthetic going into it. In fact, every test that I saw showed virtually no difference over the long term as long as regular change intervals are used for the dino oil. Cost analysis showed synthetic to be more expensive, even with the longer change interval. Last and not least, to maintain my warranty, I need to follow dc's interval, which totally blows synthetics out. It has already been said, but it is your money and you can use what you want, but if you really research it, a good dino oil is the way to go.

Lightman

Westguy, I'm not sure if you thought I was saying dino was a better choice than synthetics, because thats not what I was saying. I was saying that I think dino is a better choice than a group 3 synthetic, like syntec, rotella syn, valvoline premium blue extreme, etc. Oils like amsoil 15w40 and mobil delvac 1, which are true group 4 synthetics of a PAO/Ester base, are far better than dino. Although you are right in saying wear numbers aren't much different when comparing dino change intervals, the fact is with a good group 4 synthetic, you can easily extend the interval. This saves you time and money from not doing extra oil changes and disposals, so the overall cost is not much different. Synthetics no matter how you stack it have much better cold temperature flow and protection, as well as superior cleanliness. My earlier point was simply that if you're going to use a synthetic, use a FULL synthetic, not a group3 imitation synthetic ;D

WestGuy

No, I understood what you said. I just took it a step further. I really think that synthetic oil is a scam for most people. The studies do not prove it is a better oil, only that it lasts longer. The higher cost of it really negates that length however. The cab study back east was probably one of the best. The cabs that used dino oil and had regular changes showed no difference in wear than the cabs that used synthetic oil and longer change periods. The cost difference was very minor but the synthics ended up a little more expensive. The only benefit shown for synthetic was that you could avoid the hasle of 3000 mile oil changes, but the downsides were the cost, the need to change filters and the need to have samples taken and tested to check the condition of the oil.

I realize that a lot of people are sold on synthetics and it will not hurt their engines a bit. It just isn't everything that it is made out to be.

Dr. Evil

[quote author=d-train link=board=20;threadid=22974;start=15#msg217075 date=1070393130]
Once the engine is hot and running it doesn't matter if you have dino or synth. I use a good synth because I can't often plug in and synth flows much better when very cold than dino. And I use it because it won't coke nearly as readily in the turbo bearing if I shut off hot. If I lived in Arizona and never pulled a trailer I'd use dino.
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Agree, the biggest advantage I can see with the synthetics isnt really extended drain interval - its the cold weather performance and reduced pour point. If u live in a colder climate its pretty important to circulate that oil ASAP. As well, the increased temps the synthetic can take without thermal breakdown is important as well.

Westguy, what I dont agree on is your statement "The studies do not prove Synthetic is a better oil, only that it lasts longer." Which study are you talking about? As a matter of fact, Id like to see that study. IMO ( & I think most studies will agree), the group 4 Synthetics are superior to dino - hands down.

deere nut

First of all - thank you all for the information. I was convinced of the superior protection that synthetic oils provide years ago. I remember reading several articles and seeing pictures of camshafts that used Mobil 1 and ones that used conventional oil. The difference was quite dramatic. I've seen farm tractors go twice as long on an overhaul on synthetic oil versus convetional oil. For me, I want an oil that can withstand the highest temperatures, maintain the best lubricicty and keep my engine clean. Synthetics (group 4) are superior in all of these categories. Compared to the cost of a new cummins, anything that will protect it better is worth the little bit of extra money you have to spend on oil. If you only plan on keeping your vehicle for a couple years then conventional oil is good enough to get you to trade in time easily. I plan on keeping mine for many years so the synthetic is my choice.

WestGuy

Dr. Evil, I don't have the study, I found it on the net doing a search. I actually found a whole bunch. The one that interested me the most involved a real large cab company that divided their fleet in half, half used dino and half used synthetic. Please underestand, I have nothing against synthetic oil and would gladly buy it if I thought it would be a better solution. The cost isn't the issue. The only information that I could find that really supported synthetic oils were published by the manufacturers. Independant studies did not. If you have some independant studies, I would love to look at them.