K&N Air Filters
09-14-2006 | 02:29 PM
#32
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 648
Likes: 1
From: San Antonio, TX
I wasn't in a big hurry to buy a K&N for my 06 but I noticed my filter minder was being suck down about half way or more. My truck has 2k on it and if a brand new air filter is doing this it can't be good, after I placed a K&N in the truck my filter minder hasn't moved at all. 
09-14-2006 | 02:37 PM
#33
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 223
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From: West Jordan, Utah
Look at the S & B set up. They post the results of their filter tests (ISO 5011 I think) The one I bought shows 99.39% filtering efficiency while flowing 45% more air than stock. I'd like to see how efficient the stock fliters are, I'd bet the are about the same.
By the way, they use proguard 7 technology
By the way, they use proguard 7 technology
09-14-2006 | 03:41 PM
#34
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 195
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Use whatever you want to spend your money on, and whatever you like the best, or feel is the best. Take things you read and hear on here with a grain of salt, because the, I heard from my brothers cousin's uncle 2 times removed on her aunts sisters side had a friend that is an umpire who saw the sign language from the catcher to the pictcher that told him not to or to be sure to use X brand because of warranty wont cut it.
Do what you want to do and be happy with it.
09-14-2006 | 06:33 PM
#35
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,015
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From: Texas
Use whatever you want to spend your money on, and whatever you like the best, or feel is the best. Take things you read and hear on here with a grain of salt, because the, I heard from my brothers cousin's uncle 2 times removed on her aunts sisters side had a friend that is an umpire who saw the sign language from the catcher to the pictcher that told him not to or to be sure to use X brand because of warranty wont cut it.
Do what you want to do and be happy with it.
Do what you want to do and be happy with it.
That is about right
09-14-2006 | 08:18 PM
#38
Banned
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,410
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From: Where hell freezes over.
Use whatever you want to spend your money on, and whatever you like the best, or feel is the best. Take things you read and hear on here with a grain of salt, because the, I heard from my brothers cousin's uncle 2 times removed on her aunts sisters side had a friend that is an umpire who saw the sign language from the catcher to the pictcher that told him not to or to be sure to use X brand because of warranty wont cut it.
Do what you want to do and be happy with it.
Do what you want to do and be happy with it.
Sorry, had my warranty voided on 1999 when it was only one year old from the same kind of advise. $6,500 later I finally sold that money pit.
09-15-2006 | 08:57 AM
#39
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 17
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I would like to refer you to the federal Consumer Product Warranties law, often referred to as the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which states, in part, in Title 15, United States Code, Section 2302, subdivision (c), as follows:
“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if –
(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor.”
Under this federal statute, a manufacturer, who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle, is prohibited from requiring you to use a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, or other service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer.
There it is in black and white, I encourage you all to look it up and read it and become educated on it, no case of a dealer voiding a warenty over a K&N filter would ever stand up. Its all hearsay anyway; "I heard of a guy who knows a guy whos brother had his warenty voided beacouse of xxxx Product..."
Seriously if you let the dealer void your warenty for somthing so stupid, an air filter, then you are fawking stupid.
Run what you want, be happy with it, it is YOUR truck.
“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if –
(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor.”
Under this federal statute, a manufacturer, who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle, is prohibited from requiring you to use a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, or other service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer.
There it is in black and white, I encourage you all to look it up and read it and become educated on it, no case of a dealer voiding a warenty over a K&N filter would ever stand up. Its all hearsay anyway; "I heard of a guy who knows a guy whos brother had his warenty voided beacouse of xxxx Product..."
Seriously if you let the dealer void your warenty for somthing so stupid, an air filter, then you are fawking stupid.
Run what you want, be happy with it, it is YOUR truck.
09-15-2006 | 04:14 PM
#40
Banned
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
I would like to refer you to the federal Consumer Product Warranties law, often referred to as the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which states, in part, in Title 15, United States Code, Section 2302, subdivision (c), as follows:
“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if –
(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor.”
Under this federal statute, a manufacturer, who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle, is prohibited from requiring you to use a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, or other service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer.
There it is in black and white, I encourage you all to look it up and read it and become educated on it, no case of a dealer voiding a warenty over a K&N filter would ever stand up. Its all hearsay anyway; "I heard of a guy who knows a guy whos brother had his warenty voided beacouse of xxxx Product..."
Seriously if you let the dealer void your warenty for somthing so stupid, an air filter, then you are fawking stupid.
Run what you want, be happy with it, it is YOUR truck.
“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if –
(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor.”
Under this federal statute, a manufacturer, who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle, is prohibited from requiring you to use a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, or other service or maintenance item, unless such item is provided, free of charge, under your warranty or unless the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) waives this prohibition against the manufacturer.
There it is in black and white, I encourage you all to look it up and read it and become educated on it, no case of a dealer voiding a warenty over a K&N filter would ever stand up. Its all hearsay anyway; "I heard of a guy who knows a guy whos brother had his warenty voided beacouse of xxxx Product..."
Seriously if you let the dealer void your warenty for somthing so stupid, an air filter, then you are fawking stupid.
Run what you want, be happy with it, it is YOUR truck.
SCREAM IT FROM A MOUNTAIN FOR THE WORLD TO HEAR BROTHER!!!!!
EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY!!!
09-15-2006 | 05:13 PM
#41
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 648
Likes: 1
From: San Antonio, TX
I personaly was NOT saying that a K&N will void your warranty what I was saying is that many... more than I have heard with any other filter... have experienced poor filtration from that filter. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm
Try the above...
http://home.comcast.net/~nhparrot/ts...FilterTest.htm
And this...
Here is a letter from K&N...
This was a letter sent to the Editor at Ford-Diesel.com from Mr. Rick Blum, K&N Engineering Technical Support Supervisor. This letter was sent to help counter misinformation and conjecture that was observed on the Ford-Diesel.com forums concerning the K&N air filtration line.
Dear sir,
I work at K&N Engineering and have been receiving a lot of questions regarding our product's integrity, reliability, and effectiveness from information posted in the Ford-Diesel.com forums. It seems these forums contain a lot of opinions and not a lot of scientific testing or factual data. I would like to provide some information to you and your readers regarding the K&N product line.
K&N filters are tested by an outside, independent laboratory, Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio, Tx. They have been proven to stop at least 99% of particles on a SAE dust test. This test uses a range of particles from the 0 - 5 micron range up to 20 microns. For comparison sake, a paper filter stops 99% on the same test and the OEM minimum standard is 96%. Foam is generally the worst media with a typical efficiency rating of 80 - 85%. To get higher ratings, the foam must be more dense and consequently more restrictive. The "tack" characteristic of a K&N allows for increased filtration without loss of airflow.
The testing procedure used is SAE J-726 using ISO Test Dust. This test is the standard of the air filter industry. The test procedure consists of flowing air through the filter at a constant rate (airflow rate is determined by the application) while feeding test dust into the air stream at a rate of 1 gram per cubic meter of air. As the filter loads with dust the pressure drop across the filter is increased to maintain the prescribed airflow rate. The test is continued until the pressure drop increases 10" H2O above the initial restriction of the clean element (in this case .78" to 10.78" H2O). At this point the test is terminated. The dirty filter element is then weighed. This weight is compared to the clean element weight to determine the total Dust Capacity. The amount of dust retained by the filter is divided by the total amount of dust fed during the test to determine the Cumulative Efficiency.
* The K&N filter achieved the following results:
Dust Capacity 305 Grams
K&N Cumulative Efficiency 99.05 %
*Links to the filtration tests are on the K&N web site at:
http://www.knfilters.com/images/factstab1.gif
http://www.knfilters.com/images/factstab2.gif
So, what this proves is that you really cannot arrive at any intelligent conclusions by holding the filter to the light. That inspection is useless, pin holes are normal. In fact, those pin holes are what makes a K&N filter efficient. Within those holes, there are actually hundreds of microscopic fibers spanning them. When treated with oil, these fibers capture and hold the very fine particles. On the same hand, the fibers allow the filter to flow more air than paper or foam. Additionally, we have to understand that oiled fibers are translucent and are not easily visible to the naked eye. Spray some WD 40 on a sheet of white paper and you will see the effect. The K&N filter is four-ply cotton gauze unlike some competitors synthetic material filters. The synthetic material filters do not have the very small fibers that natural cotton does. Also, the oil in a K&N is completely absorbed into the media and there is no risk of contaminating electronic sensors as there is with Foam filters that can have oil pulled from the soaked media.
K&N got started over 30 years ago making filters for motorcycles and off road racers. The filters did so well that these customers wanted similar filters for their cars and trucks. K&N started making filters for these applications and here we are today making filters for just about any application on the market. If our filters did not work, we would not be in business growing every year.
K&N makes filters for Chrysler/Mopar, Ford Motorsports, Edelbrock, Rotax Engines, and Harley Davidson. K&N filters come as original equipment on the 2000 Ford Mustang Cobra-R. K&N even made filters for the Apache helicopters used in Desert Storm because of maintenance problems with the original paper design. If K&N filters work in these conditions they will work for you.
Thanks,
Rick Blum
Technical Support Supervisor, K&N Engineering
Take a look at this on as well...
http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/s...ary/000165.pdf
I take all of this with a grain of salt.
But the truth is that some filters are better than others I am going to play it safe and either run the stock filter AFE progaurd 7 or donaldson filters since these have the best reputation. There was an independent test that was done of most of the filters out there that some other diesel website did but I can't find it now I will keep looking.
Try the above...
http://home.comcast.net/~nhparrot/ts...FilterTest.htm
And this...
Here is a letter from K&N...
This was a letter sent to the Editor at Ford-Diesel.com from Mr. Rick Blum, K&N Engineering Technical Support Supervisor. This letter was sent to help counter misinformation and conjecture that was observed on the Ford-Diesel.com forums concerning the K&N air filtration line.
Dear sir,
I work at K&N Engineering and have been receiving a lot of questions regarding our product's integrity, reliability, and effectiveness from information posted in the Ford-Diesel.com forums. It seems these forums contain a lot of opinions and not a lot of scientific testing or factual data. I would like to provide some information to you and your readers regarding the K&N product line.
K&N filters are tested by an outside, independent laboratory, Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio, Tx. They have been proven to stop at least 99% of particles on a SAE dust test. This test uses a range of particles from the 0 - 5 micron range up to 20 microns. For comparison sake, a paper filter stops 99% on the same test and the OEM minimum standard is 96%. Foam is generally the worst media with a typical efficiency rating of 80 - 85%. To get higher ratings, the foam must be more dense and consequently more restrictive. The "tack" characteristic of a K&N allows for increased filtration without loss of airflow.
The testing procedure used is SAE J-726 using ISO Test Dust. This test is the standard of the air filter industry. The test procedure consists of flowing air through the filter at a constant rate (airflow rate is determined by the application) while feeding test dust into the air stream at a rate of 1 gram per cubic meter of air. As the filter loads with dust the pressure drop across the filter is increased to maintain the prescribed airflow rate. The test is continued until the pressure drop increases 10" H2O above the initial restriction of the clean element (in this case .78" to 10.78" H2O). At this point the test is terminated. The dirty filter element is then weighed. This weight is compared to the clean element weight to determine the total Dust Capacity. The amount of dust retained by the filter is divided by the total amount of dust fed during the test to determine the Cumulative Efficiency.
* The K&N filter achieved the following results:
Dust Capacity 305 Grams
K&N Cumulative Efficiency 99.05 %
*Links to the filtration tests are on the K&N web site at:
http://www.knfilters.com/images/factstab1.gif
http://www.knfilters.com/images/factstab2.gif
So, what this proves is that you really cannot arrive at any intelligent conclusions by holding the filter to the light. That inspection is useless, pin holes are normal. In fact, those pin holes are what makes a K&N filter efficient. Within those holes, there are actually hundreds of microscopic fibers spanning them. When treated with oil, these fibers capture and hold the very fine particles. On the same hand, the fibers allow the filter to flow more air than paper or foam. Additionally, we have to understand that oiled fibers are translucent and are not easily visible to the naked eye. Spray some WD 40 on a sheet of white paper and you will see the effect. The K&N filter is four-ply cotton gauze unlike some competitors synthetic material filters. The synthetic material filters do not have the very small fibers that natural cotton does. Also, the oil in a K&N is completely absorbed into the media and there is no risk of contaminating electronic sensors as there is with Foam filters that can have oil pulled from the soaked media.
K&N got started over 30 years ago making filters for motorcycles and off road racers. The filters did so well that these customers wanted similar filters for their cars and trucks. K&N started making filters for these applications and here we are today making filters for just about any application on the market. If our filters did not work, we would not be in business growing every year.
K&N makes filters for Chrysler/Mopar, Ford Motorsports, Edelbrock, Rotax Engines, and Harley Davidson. K&N filters come as original equipment on the 2000 Ford Mustang Cobra-R. K&N even made filters for the Apache helicopters used in Desert Storm because of maintenance problems with the original paper design. If K&N filters work in these conditions they will work for you.
Thanks,
Rick Blum
Technical Support Supervisor, K&N Engineering
Take a look at this on as well...
http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/s...ary/000165.pdf
I take all of this with a grain of salt.
But the truth is that some filters are better than others I am going to play it safe and either run the stock filter AFE progaurd 7 or donaldson filters since these have the best reputation. There was an independent test that was done of most of the filters out there that some other diesel website did but I can't find it now I will keep looking.
09-15-2006 | 07:28 PM
#42
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
took me awhile to find it, i had to look in one of my law books.
But yeah, no harm no foul to anyone here,
I was not stateing the K&N was a superior filter, just about the warenty being voided over it.
Im not gonna bash people over the parts they buy or anything like that, after all its not my truck so i have no say. Like for instance "Bulley dog is better than MBRP, you are stupid if you don't buy Bully dog..." I hope everyone would do the same to me. However I may give advise and pros vs. cons of different parts, and let to owner decide on what to get.
If anyone said anything to me about the stuff i bought for my truck in a negative way reflected to me, id say "Its MY truck you don't like it, don't ask to ride in it"
Again no harm no foul, i like everybody. CHEERS!
Nate
09-15-2006 | 08:07 PM
#43
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 648
Likes: 1
From: San Antonio, TX
Same here I am not trying to say anything bad about what anyone has chosen, it ain't my truck!!! All I was saying is that there are choices and some have been documented to be better than others... just my .02
09-15-2006 | 08:11 PM
#44
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
