it is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speek and remove all doubt..

you claime to know your stuff? an open diss is torque biasing, but its a 1:1 bias... yee ha.. the aam torsen has a bias of about 3:1 in other words if you have enough traction on the spinning side to suport 100 ft/lb of torque before loosing traction, the the other side will recive atleast 300 ft/lbs.. if tractions not available you can drag a brake to fool it.
case in point i had a guy not belive how well the work untill i proved it.. i drove up a hill in 2wd with 1 tire off the ground completely for about 15 feet, and i did it in 1st gear at an idle so he wouldnt be able to use momentum as an excuse.. id like to see any one be able to do that with a "gov-bomb" and yes, the gov-loc will fit the dodge axles...

if you need any more skinny about what is/ isnt available search my posts.

 

I clearly remember the winter day I pulled the Chevy 4x4 out of 21" of snow. I can't say it was 25 miles from no-where; nor was it really "off-road" - more like just next to the road.

My first thought was that this thread had the sound of a troll in it. I'm thinking maybe BigDave needs to buy-back the Chevy.

 

The Dodge diff is of the Torsen type, I think it's referred to as as Type 3 if I recall correctly. Not all Torsen type L/S have the gears layed out the same, but their operational principle is the same. They have a torque bias... if the bias is 2:1 that means that for every ft-lbs of drag on the no traction tire it will deliver 2 ft-lbs to the tire with traction. Now if you remember back to math class 2*0 = 0. Which is why they require some brake drag if the traction on the slipping tire is near 0.

It works much better than an open diff. With an open diff being 1:1 basically that means if you have no traction and apply 50 ft-lbs of brakes you still aren't going anywhere because if you have 50 ft-lbs on one tire you have 50 ft-bls on the other unless you're setup for independent braking. If you get into the same situation with a 2:1 Torsen diff you can apply 50 ft-lbs of brakes and you'll get 100 ft-lbs going to the tire with traction... subtract 50 ft-lbs for the brake drag on that tire and you have 50 ft-lbs of forward motivation.

You can even get Torsen diffs setup with some preload, just like a clutch L/S, but the Dodge diffs don't seem to have much, if any preload built into them. Preload will make it less necessary to apply the brake when a tire is in the air.

 

I was hoping this thread wouldn't degrade to personal attacks.......but it is the internet.

Points taken on the driving aspect. I don't use it for mudbogging. When I got the Dodge stuck I was doing some scouting after Hurrican Rita. The terrain had changed significantly. Momentum will only take you so far as it is sometimes necessary to turn around.

This is my fourth 4WD truck and the first one with a "helical gear" type differential. Most differentials of this type (Torsen 2, Detroit TrueTrac, ect...) use worm style gears to transfer the torque from axle to axle. The AAM TracRite appears (my visual inspection and service manual diagram) to use helical gears in a normal planetary arrangement. Torque bias is probably nil.

When it was in the dealership the "tech" showed me it was working by running the vehicle with all the wheels off the ground.

"See, they are all spinning" he exclaimed. That was until I stuck my hand on the right rear wheel and it instantly came to a stop. IMHO, a differental like that has no place in 4x4 vehicle.

 

""See, they are all spinning" he exclaimed. That was until I stuck my hand on the right rear wheel and it instantly came to a stop. IMHO, a differental like that has no place in 4x4 vehicle."

That is a symptom of an open diff or a limited slip, evidently regardless of type, and from what I understand the only way to avoid it is with a locker. Some tests use a ramp which place a front and rear wheel off of the ground, and while some brake will provide some additional torque to a wheel it's not going to provide the amount that a locker will. Unselectable lockers, selectable lockers poorly utilized, and limited slips to a lesser degree will tend to kick the rear end around in some situations, so in my opinion 'automatic' traction devices have no place a large vehicle.

Again, no type of limited slip or locker can compensate for inadequate tire choice for the conditions.

 

I don't have a problem w/mine, acts like a second gen while under power turning a corner? an it will spin both rear tires in loose sand. it does take brake modulation to get it to work sometimes like others have mentioned. the chevy diff won't work because it has no provisions for the tone ring.

 

I look at it this way, limited slip is exactly that. No matter who makes it or what vehicle it came in, it's only going to "limit one tire spinning" slightly. My chevy gasser sucked when one tire hit slick mud. My dodge does a little better in my opinion. I know for my truck there are ones for the front but none for the rear. Supposedly ARB is working on one but that is just a rumor I have heard. Botton line is if you want real traction get a locker.

 

Gee, this should be real easy. At most, $1500 for new diff incl. labor for the Dodge. $35,000 for new D-Max Chevy to replace a diff not working to the customers satisfaction. The math to me is more than enough to make make up my mind as to which route I would take.

 

"I just traded-in my 4x4 Chevrolet Suburban for a 2004 2500 4x4 Laramie Diesel. My first trip off road I get it stuck"

The Dodge ( like any other diesel ?) will be nose heavy when empty, so tire choice will be more critical. Mother Nature doesn't give you extra credit for using the right tires most of thetime, she demands the right tires all the time.

 

The problem appears to be with the engineering. My research shows no aftermarket lockers are available yet. Good tip on the Humvee above. I wasn't aware they changed to the Torsen 2 from the Torsen 1. If my wife had made the buying decision it would have been an H1.

True, but even with tires there has to be compromises. A tire for the sand doesn't work in the mud, what works in mud is not good on pavement, ect....