HELP! Air Dog and fuel gelling problem!
02-01-2011, 08:34 AM
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HELP! Air Dog and fuel gelling problem!
Hey folks.
So i installed my iar dog with the draw straw about a year ago and the thing works GREAT, most of the time.
About 3 weeks ago i experianced fuel gelling in the filter when denver saw sub zero temps. It took me 2 hours of starting the truck and watching it die before i realized the filter is probably gelling up. I used the girlfriends hair dryer to melt the giant block of slush and ice i had created from driving the day prior
which got the truck healthy again.
NOW, denver is sitting right at -10* before the wind chill. I removed all the slush from tha aor dog last night and about 30 miles from home, i added Diesel Fuel Supplement® +Cetane Boost® from Power Srervice to the tank in hopes of aiding in the fuel gelling situation i was bound to have today.
This morning, i unplugged the block heater and started the truck. Started just as normal but dies after about 5 minutes. So i went about the routine of setting the trusty hair dryer in place on the air dog to warm it up. This time is started and ran for about 10 minutes before dieing. I have repeated this routine for about an hour now with no positive results. The air dog filter and water seperator is warm to the touch so i know its okay.
That being said, my next guess would be gelling of the fuel in the tank. I added a bottle of Diesel 911 to the tank in hopes of breaking up any gelling that might be in the tank. Still the same problem.
Im assuming i have gelling throughout the fuel system this time since its drasticly colder then the last time.
Is there a way to install a fuel heater to the air dog? That way, once the engine starts, the excess fuel the engine doesant burn will return to the tank in a warmer state?
I think ill need to get a 500 watt oil pan heater to install under the tank now too to hekp keep the tank warm in stupid cold temps like we have now.
Once the engine is running and up to temp, will the unburned fuel going back to the tank keep things warm enough through the day? Being that the high today is going to be -1*, this is going to be an ongoing problem all day if i even get the truck fired up at all.
This is starting to effect me more and more sinve i work for a 24/7 disaster restoration end emergency responce company and i heavily rely on my truck to get me where i need to go at all times of the day, even in the coldest of weather.
Any input would be great!
So i installed my iar dog with the draw straw about a year ago and the thing works GREAT, most of the time.
About 3 weeks ago i experianced fuel gelling in the filter when denver saw sub zero temps. It took me 2 hours of starting the truck and watching it die before i realized the filter is probably gelling up. I used the girlfriends hair dryer to melt the giant block of slush and ice i had created from driving the day prior
which got the truck healthy again.NOW, denver is sitting right at -10* before the wind chill. I removed all the slush from tha aor dog last night and about 30 miles from home, i added Diesel Fuel Supplement® +Cetane Boost® from Power Srervice to the tank in hopes of aiding in the fuel gelling situation i was bound to have today.
This morning, i unplugged the block heater and started the truck. Started just as normal but dies after about 5 minutes. So i went about the routine of setting the trusty hair dryer in place on the air dog to warm it up. This time is started and ran for about 10 minutes before dieing. I have repeated this routine for about an hour now with no positive results. The air dog filter and water seperator is warm to the touch so i know its okay.
That being said, my next guess would be gelling of the fuel in the tank. I added a bottle of Diesel 911 to the tank in hopes of breaking up any gelling that might be in the tank. Still the same problem.
Im assuming i have gelling throughout the fuel system this time since its drasticly colder then the last time.
Is there a way to install a fuel heater to the air dog? That way, once the engine starts, the excess fuel the engine doesant burn will return to the tank in a warmer state?
I think ill need to get a 500 watt oil pan heater to install under the tank now too to hekp keep the tank warm in stupid cold temps like we have now.
Once the engine is running and up to temp, will the unburned fuel going back to the tank keep things warm enough through the day? Being that the high today is going to be -1*, this is going to be an ongoing problem all day if i even get the truck fired up at all.
This is starting to effect me more and more sinve i work for a 24/7 disaster restoration end emergency responce company and i heavily rely on my truck to get me where i need to go at all times of the day, even in the coldest of weather.
Any input would be great!
02-01-2011, 08:50 AM
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To add to my first post...... just for kicks, i moved the blow dryer from the air dog to the bottom of the tank to maybe heat the fuel in the tank a bit. Now the truck wont run for more then a couple minutes which tells me the air dog is still gelling rather fast. Air temp now is -4* with a 10-15 MPH wind.
There is an extra port on the water seperator side of the air dog that is currently unused. Maybe a fuel heating coil of some sort can be installed in that port?! That would be nice as it would heat the fuel going into the seperator and keep the air dog warm all the time as long as the truck is running.
Still have to combat the gelled fuel in the tank though but i think as loong as i can get the truck running long enough to get to opperating temps, the fuel in the tank would stay warm..... right?
I'd just keep the tank warm all night with the oil pan heating pads so it'll start in the mornings.
There is an extra port on the water seperator side of the air dog that is currently unused. Maybe a fuel heating coil of some sort can be installed in that port?! That would be nice as it would heat the fuel going into the seperator and keep the air dog warm all the time as long as the truck is running.
Still have to combat the gelled fuel in the tank though but i think as loong as i can get the truck running long enough to get to opperating temps, the fuel in the tank would stay warm..... right?
I'd just keep the tank warm all night with the oil pan heating pads so it'll start in the mornings.
02-01-2011, 09:14 AM
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A couple things: PS + Cetane does NOT have an anti-gel agent. You need the standard white bottle Power Services additive. Diesel 911 works, but if you have a full tank, and it's already sucking it through the lines, you're going to have to wait at least two hours before you get any results, and even that's pushing it. The fuel returning from the engine is plenty warm, and is more than enough to keep the fuel in the tank from getting cold. Do NOT put a 500W heater on your fuel tank as all you'll end up with is a smoldering pile of twisted metal.
I lived 8yrs in Fairbanks, AK and never had a problem with the tank gelling. Gelling in the filters at the engine? Yes. Tank: No.
The biggest thing you can do is stop buying fuel at whatever store you're buying it from, at least during the winter. All the other additives are preventative maintenance that won't overcome poor fuel quality. If it's still not running, you can put a salamander heater under the rear bumper and it should free things up nicely in about an hour. Good luck.
I lived 8yrs in Fairbanks, AK and never had a problem with the tank gelling. Gelling in the filters at the engine? Yes. Tank: No.
The biggest thing you can do is stop buying fuel at whatever store you're buying it from, at least during the winter. All the other additives are preventative maintenance that won't overcome poor fuel quality. If it's still not running, you can put a salamander heater under the rear bumper and it should free things up nicely in about an hour. Good luck.
02-01-2011, 09:29 AM
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A couple things: PS + Cetane does NOT have an anti-gel agent. You need the standard white bottle Power Services additive. Diesel 911 works, but if you have a full tank, and it's already sucking it through the lines, you're going to have to wait at least two hours before you get any results, and even that's pushing it. The fuel returning from the engine is plenty warm, and is more than enough to keep the fuel in the tank from getting cold. Do NOT put a 500W heater on your fuel tank as all you'll end up with is a smoldering pile of twisted metal.
I lived 8yrs in Fairbanks, AK and never had a problem with the tank gelling. Gelling in the filters at the engine? Yes. Tank: No.
The biggest thing you can do is stop buying fuel at whatever store you're buying it from, at least during the winter. All the other additives are preventative maintenance that won't overcome poor fuel quality. If it's still not running, you can put a salamander heater under the rear bumper and it should free things up nicely in about an hour. Good luck.
I lived 8yrs in Fairbanks, AK and never had a problem with the tank gelling. Gelling in the filters at the engine? Yes. Tank: No.
The biggest thing you can do is stop buying fuel at whatever store you're buying it from, at least during the winter. All the other additives are preventative maintenance that won't overcome poor fuel quality. If it's still not running, you can put a salamander heater under the rear bumper and it should free things up nicely in about an hour. Good luck.
I had to resort to buying fuel from an unknown source as i was out of town. I wish i could find a station that sold #1 or a #1/#2 mix but that seems scarce out here unless i drive east to the country.
I moved the blow dryer back to the air dog and let it run for about 45 minutes without the truck on.
Truck has been running for about 20 minutes now with no issues yet. I think i might have freed it up.
Im just going to assume that fuel flowing through the system all day will prevent gelling during the day. Its the down time i gotta worry about.
02-01-2011, 09:43 AM
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Another update for good measure.
So with the hair dryer on the pump for 45 minutes with the truck off, started the truck and let it run. Been running for about 25 Minutes and all sounded good. Took the hair dryer off the air dog and within 1 minute the truck has started jumping and jittering almost to stall. Before it stalled, i tossed the dryer BACK on the air dog and now the truck is running smooth again.
Seems the air dog is the problem point. I wonder if where i got fuel from had a high content of water in it. Since the truck runs okay with heat applied to the pump.
This is frusterating!
almost 4 hours trying to get this thing to run on its own!!!!
I gotta find a solution!
Im really thinking an inline diesel fuel heater before the pump might solve the issue.
Current conditions:
Temp: -12
Wind: Northeast at 10 MPH
Humidity: 69%
Dewpoint: -19°F
Barometer: 30.33 inches
Wind Chill: -32°F
*** The truck is blowing warm air now out of the heater and the temp gauge says its just below normal opperating temp (at the lowest line) But as soon as the blow dryer is removed, the trucks starts stumbeling.
Im going to assume the filter is fowled. But i cant get it to run long enough to get a new filter
If i cant get it to idle smooth on its own, no way am i taking it out on the street even though my brain tells me if i can get the truck warm enough while driving, the fuel will warm up more to keep it from gelling in the filter.
So with the hair dryer on the pump for 45 minutes with the truck off, started the truck and let it run. Been running for about 25 Minutes and all sounded good. Took the hair dryer off the air dog and within 1 minute the truck has started jumping and jittering almost to stall. Before it stalled, i tossed the dryer BACK on the air dog and now the truck is running smooth again.
Seems the air dog is the problem point. I wonder if where i got fuel from had a high content of water in it. Since the truck runs okay with heat applied to the pump.
This is frusterating!
almost 4 hours trying to get this thing to run on its own!!!!
I gotta find a solution!
Im really thinking an inline diesel fuel heater before the pump might solve the issue.
Current conditions:
Temp: -12
Wind: Northeast at 10 MPH
Humidity: 69%
Dewpoint: -19°F
Barometer: 30.33 inches
Wind Chill: -32°F
*** The truck is blowing warm air now out of the heater and the temp gauge says its just below normal opperating temp (at the lowest line) But as soon as the blow dryer is removed, the trucks starts stumbeling.
Im going to assume the filter is fowled. But i cant get it to run long enough to get a new filter
If i cant get it to idle smooth on its own, no way am i taking it out on the street even though my brain tells me if i can get the truck warm enough while driving, the fuel will warm up more to keep it from gelling in the filter.
02-01-2011, 10:51 AM
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I have 3/4 tank with 16 oz of Diesel Fuel Supplement® +Cetane Boost®.
Instructions said to use 8 oz for up to 32 gallons of fuel or double that to maximize effect. I used double before shutting the truck off last night.
This morning i dumped 32oz of Diesel 9•1•1® into the tank.
That gives me 48oz of liquids besides the crap fuel thats in the tank.
If i add another 16oz of diesel supplement, im getting quite a bit of stuff in there.
Maybe adding kerosene would be a better option?!
FYI, here is the info of the stuff im using:
Power Service Diesel 911
http://www.powerservice.com/d911/
Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement +Cetane Boost
http://www.powerservice.com/dfs/
Just in case someone was wondering.
How much should i add to ~24 gallons of fuel?
Im thinking 5 gallons would be okay?
I hear up to 33% is okay. With a full tank with 32 gallons of diesel, that gives me 10.5 gallons of kerosene.
Since i have 24 gallons of fuel, that leaves me with 7.92 gallons of kerosene.
But since i have so much other stuff besides fuel, i think i should knock that down to 5 gallons.
Maybe im thinking too much about this all..
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02-01-2011, 10:53 AM
#8
Top's Younger Twin
Sometimes the filters [whether its an airdog or factory or whatever] can be too far gone. Too much water and too much waxing and gelling to get them to recover. I would suggest you change the filters.
Up here in Canada I do not use any additives and we do not have a #1 fuel where I am...the suppliers blend according to the temps we have on average.
As soon as I know I am going to travel to a different area south of me...USA, I add an anti-gel. I learned the hard way that adding preventative additives after the fact can be too little too late. Changing the filters and letting the white bottle do its stuff should resolve the issue for you.
Its -32C here with a windchill of -44C or about -51F. The truck was parked for the past 2 days with just the block heater and started fine. I did notice that the memory foam I used for the seat modification was FROZEN SOLID!
First time ever.
Hope you get it figured out.
Up here in Canada I do not use any additives and we do not have a #1 fuel where I am...the suppliers blend according to the temps we have on average.
As soon as I know I am going to travel to a different area south of me...USA, I add an anti-gel. I learned the hard way that adding preventative additives after the fact can be too little too late. Changing the filters and letting the white bottle do its stuff should resolve the issue for you.
Its -32C here with a windchill of -44C or about -51F. The truck was parked for the past 2 days with just the block heater and started fine. I did notice that the memory foam I used for the seat modification was FROZEN SOLID!
First time ever.Hope you get it figured out.
02-01-2011, 10:59 AM
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Sometimes the filters [whether its an airdog or factory or whatever] can be too far gone. Too much water and too much waxing and gelling to get them to recover. I would suggest you change the filters.
Up here in Canada I do not use any additives and we do not have a #1 fuel where I am...the suppliers blend according to the temps we have on average.
As soon as I know I am going to travel to a different area south of me...USA, I add an anti-gel. I learned the hard way that adding preventative additives after the fact can be too little too late. Changing the filters and letting the white bottle do its stuff should resolve the issue for you.
Its -32C here with a windchill of -44C or about -51F. The truck was parked for the past 2 days with just the block heater and started fine. I did notice that the memory foam I used for the seat modification was FROZEN SOLID! First time ever.
Hope you get it figured out.
Up here in Canada I do not use any additives and we do not have a #1 fuel where I am...the suppliers blend according to the temps we have on average.
As soon as I know I am going to travel to a different area south of me...USA, I add an anti-gel. I learned the hard way that adding preventative additives after the fact can be too little too late. Changing the filters and letting the white bottle do its stuff should resolve the issue for you.
Its -32C here with a windchill of -44C or about -51F. The truck was parked for the past 2 days with just the block heater and started fine. I did notice that the memory foam I used for the seat modification was FROZEN SOLID!
First time ever.Hope you get it figured out.
WOW! That comment right there tells me i have a bad filter! SO, now im looking to get a new filter. The place that had them is clear across town. Im going to try the kerosene to see if that'll get it going to get there and change the filter ASAP.
Hopefully i can get a filter today since tomorrow the weather is going to be almost the same. If the truck runs on a new filter, my question is answered.
Thanks for everyones input guys!!!
02-02-2011, 08:36 AM
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Well this morning was the tes i guess. Got out to the truck in -12* and it fired right up. It stalled about 10 minutes after running. Got the blow dryer on it and started it again. Kept it running for an hour before i hit the streets with it.
Ive now got 5 gallons of kerrosene and 16oz of Stanadyne in it.
Driving up to the Rocky Mountians of colorado i saw the lowest temp of
-26* !!!
WOW!
Poor truck can hardly stay warm unless i have load on the engine.
Ive now got 5 gallons of kerrosene and 16oz of Stanadyne in it.
Driving up to the Rocky Mountians of colorado i saw the lowest temp of
-26* !!!
WOW!
Poor truck can hardly stay warm unless i have load on the engine.
02-02-2011, 08:49 AM
#11
Registered User
Do you know if the fuel you got had any bio mixed in? I had an issue last year with a bio-blend. Even with enough additive that it "should" have been good it plugged me up tight at -4*. I am just not convinced that bio can be treated to work in that cold. 7 gallons of #1 worked for me, so you should be good now.
As for keeping the motor warm, thats where you need a winter front and an exhaust brake!
As for heaters Parker makes inline heaters that can go between your tank and AD, that should help the issue. They have 2 options, heated hose or canister heaters. Neither option is cheaper, but the easiest with an AD.
Another hose intensive option would be to run the fuel thru the OE canister/heater and then into the AD. This would pre-filter and heat the fuel.
I also added foam to the outside of my exposed filter this year in an effort to keep the snow/wind/ice off it so that some of the residual heat from the tank stays. The tank will heat up after a while of the engine running, but takes a lot longer without a fuel heater.
As for keeping the motor warm, thats where you need a winter front and an exhaust brake!
As for heaters Parker makes inline heaters that can go between your tank and AD, that should help the issue. They have 2 options, heated hose or canister heaters. Neither option is cheaper, but the easiest with an AD.
Another hose intensive option would be to run the fuel thru the OE canister/heater and then into the AD. This would pre-filter and heat the fuel.
I also added foam to the outside of my exposed filter this year in an effort to keep the snow/wind/ice off it so that some of the residual heat from the tank stays. The tank will heat up after a while of the engine running, but takes a lot longer without a fuel heater.
02-02-2011, 01:07 PM
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Do you know if the fuel you got had any bio mixed in? I had an issue last year with a bio-blend. Even with enough additive that it "should" have been good it plugged me up tight at -4*. I am just not convinced that bio can be treated to work in that cold. 7 gallons of #1 worked for me, so you should be good now.
As for keeping the motor warm, thats where you need a winter front and an exhaust brake!
As for heaters Parker makes inline heaters that can go between your tank and AD, that should help the issue. They have 2 options, heated hose or canister heaters. Neither option is cheaper, but the easiest with an AD.
Another hose intensive option would be to run the fuel thru the OE canister/heater and then into the AD. This would pre-filter and heat the fuel.
I also added foam to the outside of my exposed filter this year in an effort to keep the snow/wind/ice off it so that some of the residual heat from the tank stays. The tank will heat up after a while of the engine running, but takes a lot longer without a fuel heater.
As for keeping the motor warm, thats where you need a winter front and an exhaust brake!
As for heaters Parker makes inline heaters that can go between your tank and AD, that should help the issue. They have 2 options, heated hose or canister heaters. Neither option is cheaper, but the easiest with an AD.
Another hose intensive option would be to run the fuel thru the OE canister/heater and then into the AD. This would pre-filter and heat the fuel.
I also added foam to the outside of my exposed filter this year in an effort to keep the snow/wind/ice off it so that some of the residual heat from the tank stays. The tank will heat up after a while of the engine running, but takes a lot longer without a fuel heater.
and it wasnt marked as bio but you never know. When it happened to me the first time a couple weeks ago, all it took was the blow dryer on the Air Dog enough to let the engine run for a while and i was good to go. It took alot more this time but then again, it was alot colder too!
Colorado doesnt normally see temps like this. This is unusual. We will see a few below zero a couple times a year but nothing this extreme!
When i got to my destination this morning, the themp on the truck said -30*! Its almost noon now and its still -20*!
My last truck (98 cummins 24 vlalve) had a bit of a hard time keeping warm too, this truck seems much better at it.
I might build me a winter front just to keep for times like this. Though, at -20*, the truck is doing fine keeping warm.
And i really didnt need ANOTHER excuse to buyvan exhaust brake
.I will definatly look into an inline heater. I think that would help a TON.
I saw a thread where someone gutted their factory fuel filter to keep the WIF and fuel heater operational. Id rather not prefilter through the factory filter. Ive heard a couple instances where the factory filter has cavitation problems letting in extra air into the fuel. Then again, even without the filter, im sure it will still have those same problems. Plus the Air Dog would remedy that too. Sure is a long way for fuek to travel. Tank to fuel heater, to factory filter/heater, to the Air Dog then to the pump.
What a tangled web we weave
02-02-2011, 03:44 PM
#13
Just a plain ole guy
Just a wild shot here. Can you wrap you air dog to help insulate the fuel in it fro the elements? And wrap your fuel lines with a small house pipe wrap?
02-02-2011, 04:10 PM
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wrap the whole air dog in insulation then duct tape it on with a plastic bag. Then drive around a bit to build up heat inside and call it good.
Guess as a last ditch effort, a guy could buy a couple strings of that electric pipe wrap too. That stuff is ment to keep water from freezing in exposed water lines. Bet it would keep fuel lines warm enough over night to get the truck moving on its own in the morning.
02-02-2011, 04:19 PM
#15
Just a plain ole guy
I would just be concerned about plain ole insulation getting wet, then you've got a pump encased in ice. Maybe something like reflectix. Just a trade name for basically bubble wrap with foil on the outside. Lowes and Home Depot's sell it as simple insulation to go on the backs of garage doors, etc. When we had our popup camper, we put sheets of it under the bunks to help keep the cold night away. Works very well. http://www.reflectixinc.com/