Guys, the 03-04 cam versus 04.5 & newer cam has been researched just recently and they have been found to be the same.

https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...d.php?t=208008

I too was hoping that swapping in the 03-04 cam would improve performance, improve fuel mileage
and reduce the EGR effect to clean up the engine oil in the 04.5 and newer engines. No such luck.


Here is a great write-up on a cam install by the Relentless Diesel guys. Plus dyno numbers before and after.
It's on a VP44 24 valve truck but similar to a Common rail.
The Relentless Diesel guy who posts on their forum is very knowledgeable and well spoken (written).
Not a lot of emotion just solid wrenching & dyno number reporting. I wonder if they or he posts on DTR?

http://www.relentlessdiesel.com/foru...c.php?f=2&t=14

Unfortunately there are no major gains to be found in a cam swap.
Not power, nor fuel mileage, nor does the oil stay cleaner in an 04.5 and newer trucks.
Getting into incremental gains for the modified street trucks. More gains for the high power race trucks...


...Just my thoughts... Joe

 

When Marty tested the program with the eliminated 3rd event was it with a stock cam or a pdr cam with a normal non in-cyl-egr grind?

I think one event with a modest stock cam would make take our trucks back to where they were in the 90's with the clean oil and engine sound/power. But it would be cleaner because of the higher pressure of the injection.

 

id be interested to hear marco/bob's input on the possibilities of this?

 

the replacement cams are the same , the cam that was in the 2003 motor was different. a cam builder said he has identified 12 different grinds in the cummins, when i found out i could only get the egr cam even for a 03 i researched and came up with the pdr. the smarty jr and pdr cam has given me a huge gain in mpg the others are incremental and a few are not cost effective, overall i have a 65% gain in mpg while towing, if i can move the third pulse i think i could gain another 20%

 

Keep your foot out of the throttle and use the TQ and don't worry about the 3rd event. It will never come into play if you don't push the rev's.

 

What do you mean by the above? The 3rd injection event is always utilized. I've monitored the injection events with a scope, the third event always occurs but changes in pulse width and time. Anyone else have data to the contrary?

Another thing - has anyone actually degreed a cam for an 03-04 vs. 04.5 to determine cam lobe centerline, duration, and lift for comparison. Just because they have the same part number does not ensure the grind is the same, you have to verify by making measurements.

Anyone? Anyone?

 

Good point...i think the part number must identify the blank...before it is even ground?

 

Well, I have yet to find any hard evidence the 3rd event is a constant. Early on there was some talk about it and the best we came up with was it was and rpm/load thing that was not a constant event. That seems to play out when you start watching turbo drive pressures, mpg, etc.

The only time I see evidence of the event is pushing the rpms over 26-2700 and really loading the engine down. Driving for mileage nets very good results as my 05 will mpg within 5% of my 92 at the same speeds and load even weighing 2500 lbs heavier. Push the rpm's and it makes a huge impact on the mileage.

If you have some solid evidence of how and when the 3rd event is utilized post away as there are a lot who would be interested.

Your on track with part # and grind. From year to year don't bet on consistency as the lates will superced the older ones.

 

Digging up an old thread..

Anyone tried a 6.7 cam in a 5.9?

 

It is the same profile as the 03-07 5.9L, it just has much wider lobes. If you are wanting the best performing cam that came stock in another application it would be a 1998.5-2002 24v the specs are 159@.050" .235"/ 206@.050".298" on a 107 LSA and the CR is 163@.050" .237"/ 191 @.050" .298 on a 98.5 LSA

Zach

 

I seem to remember reading along time ago that the third injection event totally goes away after something like 2000 rpms. It's been quiet a few years but I'm pretty sure it was solid information at the time. You've got to remember that the more rpm's and there is less time for each event to occur. Some guys here wrongly argued that the third event didn't occur until later rpm's which is totally backwards. Even high energy electronic ignition systems like MSD (gas/spark engines) that utilize multiple sparks eventually drop out to one spark after certain rpm's are reached. There just isn't time to fire that quickly.

 

HamiltonCams, is there somewhere I can read up and learn about the specs that you posted. What the numbers mean and all. I want to get this info straight in my head.

I understand the concept of the in cylinder EGR but I wan to fully understand it so I can formulate an opinion on how to defeat it's negative effects. And I'm pretty sure the answer lies in the numbers you posted.

 

I don't know what you are reading or what that is based on but that idea is totally wrong based on what the 3rd event is intended for. Its pretty clear the 3rd event is both power and emissions oriented and firing it less than 2000 rpm's meets neither of those criteria.

There is no need to to increase power as power in that range and emissions does not come into play as the cylinder pressures are still relatively low. All you have to do is compare a dyno graph of a single event to a 3 event to see the impact. A CR TQ curve is flat almost all the way to redline where as a 12V is showing a spike in the lower rpms then sharply tailing off as rpm's rise. The 3 events are responsible for that flat curve.

Where is emissions needed? In the higher rpm range of course. As timing is advanced to meet rpm requirements cylinder pressures and temps start to rise and NOX emissions increase. The late firing event coupled with a small turbo housing increase the mix of combusted gasses in the cylinder to help cool the combustion. Thats the way they all work and that is exactly how Cummins has described their solution works.

There is no comparison between an MSD system and a fuel inection system as far as dropping events go. The Cummins is turning a modest 3000 rpms at redline, plenty of time to shape a timing curve especially when the first event is around 20 degrees BTDC the 3rd event is firing somewhere at 50-60 degress after TDC. Lots of room for multiple events. Furthermore by your reasoning all the newer diesels are non-functional as they are using 5 events to meet power and emissions.

Dropping a spark event gains you nothing until you break 5-6k in a gasser engine. Big difference in the 2 applications and concepts.

Wrongly argued that the 3rd event occurs at high rpm's? Hah!!! Somebody is eating crow trying to dispute that statement.

Seems the guy that thought if fired all the time deigned not to respond with any further evidence. Design specifications and practical application still win out on this one. The 3rd event, or an extension to the second event as some see it, occurs at higher rpms to generate the broad power band the CR makes AND run the in-cylinder EGR system.

 

Does any aftermarket cam mfg out there provide a cam with out in cylinder EGR or do they market a cam that is made for towing and not "pulling" a SLED in stadium pulls?

Also, what is the service life of the timing chain (i am assuming it is not a belt). From what I understand the 5.9l is designed to run 250K before any service.

LAstly from speaking with guys at CUMMINs the 3rd cycle was for reduced smoke, emissions, what I believe they meant by smoother engine / quieter.

SAS

 

no 6 the last of your statement is correct. we found another way to shorten the duration time. by changing to ddp 50 hp nozzles you can inject the required fuel in near the peak giving higher efficiency, this gained us another 1.2 mpg. nothing comes with out a price, i set the smarty on economy to offset the gain of the ddp